User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 47

  1. #31
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    isfp
    Posts
    548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Yes, please keep this in mind. People hate the fact that I take forever to make decisions, especially about the small things in life, but I feel compelled to reach that decision, because I do feel that desire for closure. I don't think it's true that J's always decide things quickly. Closed-ended vs. open-ended seems like a better dichotomy.
    Ps can even make a whole lot of instant decisions (for SPs, it's called acting on impulse!) about a lot of things. Basically, we feel we're missing out on life if we stand there too long deliberating over stuff that isn't essential. But if we have to come to a decision but none of the options look all that appealing, then we can take forever trying to decide which one will restrict us the least.

    SJs tend to make far fewer instant decisions. My ISTJ sister can take forever to make up her mind about purchases shes's considering, because she always wants to consider which will give her the best value for her money in the long run.

    Sarah
    ISFP

  2. #32
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'll try a few ideas at expressing it...

    1. Intuition simply perceives patterns raw, Thinking defines and evaluates the patterns nature, and can compare/apply a pattern to something in particular, such as a situation or goal.

    2. Intuition makes connections, Thinking evaluates and understands the connection.

    3. Intuition notices ways things could be linked, Thinking tries to evaluate to the best of its ability whether any those connections are logically likely, or if one contradicts another, etc.

    Do any of those make sense?
    The bold parts stood out to me. It's just that...to me, it seems like all thinking (in the non-MBTI context) is manipulating connections between observations (newly acquired) or ideas (previously stored). And if N deals with those connections, then what is left for the realm of T? I think I see what you're saying, though. Could we say that N is to Brainstorming as T is to Revising? By the way, did you read my other thoughts on this through the thread?


    Sarah: The same applies vice versa! Why didn't I think of that? But yes, I see that that makes sense.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    The bold parts stood out to me. It's just that...to me, it seems like all thinking (in the non-MBTI context) is manipulating connections between observations (newly acquired) or ideas (previously stored). And if N deals with those connections, then what is left for the realm of T?
    Put simply, N envisions the connections -- it sees them, just like you'd glance at a map or at a river and see possibilities of where to travel or where to cross. it senses potential, on almost an inarticulate level. (it is the "Wow look at it all!" factor.)

    Once you start putting words to it and prioritizing, you are moving away from Ne, however. Your T is what is organizing the options, if you're trying to accomplish a task (or your F, if you're simply trying to find the path that conforms to your natural inclination rather than bend your journey to an impersonal goal).

    So you get an interesting flipflop between ENTP and INTP.

    ENTPs = Do what I just said, they're looking at the map, then using Ti to evaluate pieces of it with the goal of exploration and navigation of things.

    INTPs = Use Ti to continually crunch data, and use Ne to collect said data to see how that gets incorporated into their judgment. They're creating an "internal map" of things just for its own ends, rather than necessarily out to personally exploring the entire map themselves.

    Which lead you to say:
    I think I see what you're saying, though. Could we say that N is to Brainstorming as T is to Revising?
    Basically, yes.

    The N envisions; the T evaluates and prioritizes.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    Well, that's interesting, but it looks like we have evidence to the contrary. Also, I found another relevant thread, though possibly biased (I haven't read much of it yet) : http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ons-ns-18.html
    Look at the latest post.

    I just thought of something. Since I'm an ISTJ, I supposedly have Te and Ne, both outward-oriented. Do you think this may be why I'm having trouble grasping how my mind uses T and N differently? If it's too hard to judge, don't bother straining.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 10-09-2008 at 08:21 AM. Reason: a new thought
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Well, that's interesting, but it looks like we have evidence to the contrary.
    What evidence?

    (If it's the human footprints mixed in with the dinosaur ones, I am not buying it!)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    The latest post in the thread I linked. An SP said (I hope she doesn't mind me displaying her opinion here) that she loves brainstorming. That's a piece of evidence against our assertion that N acts as brainstorming, even though that was only an example.

    To relate these concepts, I try to use examples that are true for me, so knowing/understanding what I did about N, and that brainstorming seems to be a good analogy or example for it, and that I am horrible at brainstorming, I hoped there might be a connection.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #37
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    The latest post in the thread I linked. An SP said (I hope she doesn't mind me displaying her opinion here) that she loves brainstorming. That's a piece of evidence against our assertion that N acts as brainstorming, even though that was only an example.
    Whoa... I think you are being far more "put everything in one single place" or too rigid here.

    First of all:
    1. Everyone uses all functions. SPs have N. NPs have S. It's just how it's used and in what combination that makes a difference.

    2. SPs *do* have a well-documented N-emulator. That's what SP actually -- and the Se+Fi combo is often confused with N function use. Read Berens or whomever else, they've talked about this for years and the difficulty people have distinguishing N from SFP.

    (The gist basically here is that N is still bringing out the patterns, where SP is basically about "exploring detail.")

    Both are useful for brainstorming, but because N is focused on inherent recognizable patterns, it tends to have more focus to it -- more efficient -- than the SFP "wade through it all and meander and explore."

    Another way to put it -- both of them do try to see the forest, but SFP is trying to see the forest still on the level of the trees, they are still noticing and playing with the tangible details and usually not as directed a search, where the N is seeing the forest and doing a quick scan and locking in broad patterns much more easily and still missing details on the trees.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    I know everyone has each. I was just being very cautious about going forward with my argument--first sign of trouble, and I shrunk back to Square One. But overall, I get what you're saying. Re-reading the descriptions of the cognitive processes on bestfittypes.com helped out, too. Should have done that sooner.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I know everyone has each. I was just being very cautious about going forward with my argument--first sign of trouble, and I shrunk back to Square One. But overall, I get what you're saying. Re-reading the descriptions of the cognitive processes on bestfittypes.com helped out, too. Should have done that sooner.
    That's okay, and I hope I did not come off too blunt, I was just sharing information.

    Practical examples (would that help too?):

    1. My ISFP friend would sit at meals when we went out and take people's food and mess with it (trying out different things), mixing in condiments and whatever he found interesting at the time. Usually the result was a horrible mess by the end but he didn't care, to him that was "brainstorming" and being creative by just shuffling things around in different combinations. It IS an artistic ability, usually involving trying something and seeing how you "feel" about the results.

    My approach to the same task would have been more directed -- less interested in the tactile feel of everything, less physically immersive, more interested in just doing the things that would "work" to create a particular feeling of completion or mood.

    Both are trying out ideas, but one is more "pattern oriented" on the large level and the other is more detail oriented on the more specific level.

    2. My ESFP son, when we talk through the woods, will be pointing out every little details. And I mean EVERY. He sees it all. (He's also very artistic, although he tends to just emulate certain styles he likes.) While he is seeing so many details and having an aesthetic reaction to it all, and needing to see it all, I am simultaneously also having an aesthetic reaction but it is based on a sense of the entire forest, its effusive global properties, and only those details that leap out to me in a pattern and/or ambiance -- unless I am specifically focusing on said details.

    (He might focus on "The frog was green and hopped across the path, and the turtle walked under a log" and 3 zillion other details; I would simply think about how there were animals in the forest and what impact that had on the overall feel.)

    I bring that up because each of us approach art in similar ways as to our "perception" style.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    Yes, the examples helped, I guess. I appreciate you taking the time to write all that out.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

Similar Threads

  1. Dichotomy tests vs cognitive function tests - A question
    By /DG/ in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-03-2016, 10:45 PM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-24-2015, 12:04 PM
  3. vs [Type7], and other questions...
    By DaniaWania in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  4. [JCF] Detemine Function Questions: Ni vs. Ne
    By TacEight in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 10-20-2010, 05:26 AM
  5. A Question About Feeling vs. Thinking
    By Mondo in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-29-2008, 10:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO