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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Ni/Fe keeps coming up with its own system of appropriateness. Si/Fe picks one system and stabilizes it.
    Probably.

    The Ni+Fe combo is definitely good at figuring out an appropriate system for context and personalities and going with that one. Si digs in its feet against all outsiders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Recently I decided to devote a lot less energy (like almost none) to a friend who kept four of us waiting 45 minutes for lunch (that's a total of 3 hours) for no good reason, she just wanted to make one more shopping stop before meeting us. This was not an isolated incident, just the last one. I don't have that kind of time to waste anymore.
    That would really piss me off.

    If you can't be there, that's okay... but call.
    And if you can't call, then you'd better be there.
    Tough luck on the shopping stop -- tell the princess to suck it up and go later.

    She's called twice and I've let the machine pick up. I've emailed back our news but haven't made plans to see her. When she tells me "I've set aside such and such a time to see you" I'll consider it. So, to answer the OP, I don't write people off for no reason. I give them many chances.
    Yeah, I wait for a pattern to show up. But if someone has a pattern of breaking engagements, I don't like to schedule with them anymore. Like you say with all the chances, I do the same, I'm flexible and understanding ... until something happens over and over and it's clear they're not making an effort to be respectful of my time and friendship.

    There are two people at my new job (not management) who go out to lunch together every day and they've never once asked me to join them. They also get take-out coffee, but only for each other; the one time I asked if I could get in on that, it was done most reluctantly. These behaviors make me dislike and resent them.
    Are they people you work with directly?

    If it's just two people who I don't interact with daily, I'm less bothered.
    If it's people I work with directly and they always blow me off and never once extend an offer, I'd view it as a more personal issue.
    (i.e., "Do they have to purposefully exclude me to not invite me?")

    The people here are pretty good about that, they usually ask if anyone wants to do the lunch thing even tho I rarely go because of lack of money for that.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #42
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Sounds more like Si/Fe.

    Ni/Fe keeps coming up with its own system of appropriateness. Si/Fe picks one system and stabilizes it.
    I don't think that's true of FeNi or FeSi unless you meant NiFe (INFJ) and SiFe (ISFJ).

    CC, I don't think asking you to not burp in public is asking you to be a square, but whatever. It's not like I don't fart in my cube (TMI) but I'm not embarrassed about it when I do it in the bathroom vs where somebody giving me a fax can smell it. Appropriateness counts for a lot. I don't think your mother would say you should never burp of fart or dress slovenly or any of those things, she's just making the point that when and where you do it counts and I agree with her. Your mother is implicitly acknowledging that you are judged (accurately or inaccurately) on such behaviors. Should they matter? I guess that's the question.

    There are aspects of Fe that are highly image conscious for a few reasons. One is like PP said and I agree with; Fe is pretty susceptible to the environment it's in. Sometimes I wonder if the people around me are oblivious to the emotional currents swirling around because they don't seem to be affected. So I can see why Fe dominants (and maybe all FJs) seek to control their emotional environment because they're affected by it the most. I'm attracted to/repulsed by certain things purely based on what type of emotions they cause me to feel.

    And then the other part of image consciousness has to do with something like CC said her mother does. We all project images and create personas for ourselves. When we see a stranger on the street we make assumptions (in the most neutral definition on the word) about them based on what they're communicating to us non-verbally. Fe's base a lot of their communication to and from people on this. It's hard for me to figure out how much of this is specific to FJs and how much of this is just a general people thing, but I think FJs really do seek to manipulate this knowledge (again in the most neutral definition of the word) more than other types.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  3. #43
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Are they people you work with directly?

    If it's just two people who I don't interact with daily, I'm less bothered.
    If it's people I work with directly and they always blow me off and never once extend an offer, I'd view it as a more personal issue.
    (i.e., "Do they have to purposefully exclude me to not invite me?")

    The people here are pretty good about that, they usually ask if anyone wants to do the lunch thing even tho I rarely go because of lack of money for that.
    I had the same job and was sitting directly next to one of them when they blithely made their plans day after day. We all work in the same open area, no private offices. In the meantime, two other people have been hired. Now a new person is sitting where I first did. She also hasn't been invited to lunch by the excluders, but I asked her to have lunch with me her first Friday and the following week, and she was enthusiastically grateful.

    The other new person isn't a cataloguer, but he works directly with the other person in the equation. Last week he even commented on the coffee thing. My plan is to ask both newbies to lunch this Friday.
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  4. #44
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    I had the same job and was sitting directly next to one of them when they blithely made their plans day after day. We all work in the same open area, no private offices. In the meantime, two other people have been hired. Now a new person is sitting where I first did. She also hasn't been invited to lunch by the excluders, but I asked her to have lunch with me her first Friday and the following week, and she was enthusiastically grateful.

    The other new person isn't a cataloguer, but he works directly with the other person in the equation. Last week he even commented on the coffee thing. My plan is to ask both newbies to lunch this Friday.
    Is it possible that they just click, and like to hang out together? I mean, I do try to think of others, but I've never really understood the idea that adults have to include all other adults in everything they do. Isn't it just natural that some personalities just mesh, and they want to spend their lunch hour hanging out, rather than trying to make small talk with the rest of the office? I do agree that it would probably be more considerate of them not to talk about their plans publicly, though.

    I mean, from my perspective, people in an office are just randomly thrown together, there's no reason they all have to hang out and be best friends outside of the office. But then, I'm an NT, and not the best with people stuff.

  5. #45
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    You may have hit the nail on the head. I'm looking at it from the perspective of "don't they remember what it was like being the new person in the office?" The idea is not they invite us every time, but how about once?
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  6. #46
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    I had the same job and was sitting directly next to one of them when they blithely made their plans day after day. We all work in the same open area, no private offices.
    Ah okay, then that does seem like they should have invited you just as a nicety even if they were indifferent... especially with you being the new person.

    In the meantime, two other people have been hired. Now a new person is sitting where I first did. She also hasn't been invited to lunch by the excluders, but I asked her to have lunch with me her first Friday and the following week, and she was enthusiastically grateful.
    Good for you.

    I know what it is like to be an outsider too and take it on myself to talk to new people at gatherings where I am an established member.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #47
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    They seem to respond the way you respond to them...

  8. #48
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    You may have hit the nail on the head. I'm looking at it from the perspective of "don't they remember what it was like being the new person in the office?" The idea is not they invite us every time, but how about once?
    Right, I understand. Maybe y'all could have a once-a-month take-the-newbies-to-lunch thing?

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