Why do I keep finding my way around to ENFPs' bad side?

[Metis]

I see a pattern of being scapegoated by ENFPs recurring through my life. WTF could that be about???

I mean, I don't go around pinpointing ENFPs and trying to get on their bad side. But somehow, it happens, repeatedly.

I don't even know of any reason why, theoretically, ENFPs would have a problem with me. I can think of reasons for several other types to be annoyed with me, but even so, the other types usually handle it better than the ENFPs that get ticked off with me. Not ENTJs, though--they're more like ENFPs when pissed. They're practically indistinguishable when they're mad about something (or mad about nothing, as the case may be).

It's a confusing world, dude.

Here's a unicorn. I hope it eats you. Go get 'em, Twinkles!

Seriously, though. Other people encounter asshole NTs, SPs, or have conflicts with SJs they think are controlling, or whatever. But my archenemies like 5 times out of 10 are these gushy goofball types who, for one reason or another, flip out like angry pancakes whose bacon smiles have been turned upside down, and whose fried egg eyes start bulging out of their maple-flavored syrup-covered faces.

 

[Yama]

As a Fe type, I sometimes get rubbed the wrong way by Te types, because we're oriented the same way but have different styles that we approach life with. Maybe it could be something similar with your Ti and ENFPs' Fi? But then again, despite Te vs Fe conflicts, xSTJs are my favorite types, so I dunno man.

 

[Metis]

As a Fe type, I sometimes get rubbed the wrong way by Te types, because we're oriented the same way but have different styles that we approach life with. Maybe it could be something similar with your Ti and ENFPs' Fi? But then again, despite Te vs Fe conflicts, xSTJs are my favorite types, so I dunno man.

Yeah, could be. In theory, ENFPs are one of my favorites, and I've gotten along great with more easy-going ones. It could be something to do with having similarities that make you seem compatible to begin with, but when push comes to shove the person has different expectations that you find unreasonable and perhaps likewise with them too.

Thanks, Yama.

 

[LucieCat]

I had to chuckle at the last paragraph ok the original post
It just depends on the person I suppose. Type is a theory and, while we identify with it, it doesn't cover every single thing about us. There could be values dissonance at play here or just different styles of going about things. And everyone responds differently to things. You can have 5 ISFJs for example that will react to the exact same situation in 5 different ways
ENFPs are apparantly terrifying when pissed off though.... I feel bad for you....
I sometimes tend to conflict with Fe and Te at times. But flip a coin, and I get along great with Fe and Te users.

 

[Red Memories]

Hm I am an ENFP and I get along great with xNTP. I love me some TP. I sometimes find your Ti confusing though. Depending on the ENFP, they may react differently to this misunderstanding of logic and emotion which may create conflict.

But idk. I mean I have such vibrant Fi most think I am a feeling dom and I don't have much trouble

unless you spend your days making insensitive comments.

then we have a problem. XD

 

[Amargith]

Im an enfp who got traumatised by the entps infamous Ti scalpel growing up.

Until i know what your values are and how you treat fellow living beings, i typically hold back with your type.

Since I have an anally high standard on this stuff, im likely to find you lacking, bit its the degree to which that determines how i proceed.

Typically, from the other side, both Entps and ixfjs tend to rub me the wrong way as they seem to use inteligence - or rather their version of intelligence which always seems biased to put them on top - to measure the worth of an individual, with entps routinely using it to determine if you re even worth their respect.

The need to talk down like that and the conditionality on basic respect for livinh beings can often be a deal breaker for me, as much as my lack of internal logic and intelligence seems to be for entps on their side

Iow, we can both be very demanding in our own fields while utterly lacking in each others - and neither appreciates the low standard/ judgement of the other.

 

[JocktheMotie]

If you're the jokester/chaos sort of ENTP you're likely to run roughshod over an ENFP's sometimes delicate sensibilities so they freak the fuck out.

 

[Coriolis]

Im an enfp who got traumatised by the entps infamous Ti scalpel growing up.

Until i know what your values are and how you treat fellow living beings, i typically hold back with your type.

Since I have an anally high standard on this stuff, im likely to find you lacking, bit its the degree to which that determines how i proceed.

Typically, from the other side, both Entps and ixfjs tend to rub me the wrong way as they seem to use inteligence - or rather their version of intelligence which always seems biased to put them on top - to measure the worth of an individual, with entps routinely using it to determine if you re even worth their respect.

The need to talk down like that and the conditionality on basic respect for livinh beings can often be a deal breaker for me, as much as my lack of internal logic and intelligence seems to be for entps on their side

Iow, we can both be very demanding in our own fields while utterly lacking in each others - and neither appreciates the low standard/ judgement of the other.

I see similar criticism levelled against INTJs, or perhaps NTJs in general. In your experience, is that different from what you are describing here?

 

[Amargith]

I see similar criticism levelled against INTJs, or perhaps NTJs in general. In your experience, is that different from what you are describing here?

In my preference, yes, it often is. Tjs typically steamroll to complete a mission, and while that can be certainly damaging to the environment, it typically stems from a lack of awareness and focus on those in their way. Typically, a display of vulnerability or just a pointing out of the damage will cause them to turn from steamroller into protector, and willing to undo their damage with the same zeal.

Now, there are ntps like that as well and i very much appreciate them - its just harder for me to distinguish them due to FeTi vs TeFi
.
Typically, intps seem more oblivious though, while entps are aware and just gaming the social system without any regard for others, courtesy of tertiary Fe, and it is *that* that pisses me iff to no end. That said, often female entps woth an even better grasp on their Fe dont give me that same issue, so it seems to be a sweet spot between finding daddies gun(aka Fe) and learning to wield it responsibly.

Meanwhile, Ive seen INtjs do the fucking same thing with their tertiary Fi, using its ability to entrance with authenticity and vulnerability to accomplish their Ni visions at someone elses expende and that, in fact pisses me off even more - and i tend to be even more heavy handed and judgemental with those that dare to go there. Its the whole 'im drunk on this newfound power - too drunk to care about the consequences' phase. Some however are so powerhungry that they never bother to get passed it and become like loose canons without any semblance of personal accountability.

The callousness that comes with the abuse of the beauty that Fi had to offer makes me both ashamed and livid as it goes to the heart of the trust and vulnerability that Fi can inspire in others.

In genneral, its the exploitation of vulnerability and what others wrongfully consider and devalue as weakness, whichever way you do it, that will make me blow a gasket.

Tl;dr version: in the end, thhe consequences can be similar, so no, not really.

 

[Jaguar]

All I can tell you is I'll never forget the day I saw an ENFP freaking out on a ENTP because of his post. I read the ENTP's post three times and still could not figure out what the hell the problem was.

 

[Starry]

I love ENTPs. They are open-minded...fun...can take jokes...and aren't constantly blaming you for shit that never happened.

 

[1487610420]

they are just bunnies

 

[Agent Washington]

In my preference, yes, it often is. Tjs typically steamroll to complete a mission, and while that can be certainly damaging to the environment, it typically stems from a lack of awareness and focus on those in their way. Typically, a display of vulnerability or just a pointing out of the damage will cause them to turn from steamroller into protector, and willing to undo their damage with the same zeal.

Now, there are ntps like that as well and i very much appreciate them - its just harder for me to distinguish them due to FeTi vs TeFi
.
Typically, intps seem more oblivious though, while entps are aware and just gaming the social system without any regard for others, courtesy of tertiary Fe, and it is *that* that pisses me iff to no end. That said, often female entps woth an even better grasp on their Fe dont give me that same issue, so it seems to be a sweet spot between finding daddies gun(aka Fe) and learning to wield it responsibly.

Meanwhile, Ive seen INtjs do the fucking same thing with their tertiary Fi, using its ability to entrance with authenticity and vulnerability to accomplish their Ni visions at someone elses expende and that, in fact pisses me off even more - and i tend to be even more heavy handed and judgemental with those that dare to go there. Its the whole 'im drunk on this newfound power - too drunk to care about the consequences' phase. Some however are so powerhungry that they never bother to get passed it and become like loose canons without any semblance of personal accountability.

The callousness that comes with the abuse of the beauty that Fi had to offer makes me both ashamed and livid as it goes to the heart of the trust and vulnerability that Fi can inspire in others.

In genneral, its the exploitation of vulnerability and what others wrongfully consider and devalue as weakness, whichever way you do it, that will make me blow a gasket.

Tl;dr version: in the end, thhe consequences can be similar, so no, not really.

from a moral perspective i think more ppl should blow a gasket about such things so u get a like from me

 

[Starry]

they are just bunnies

I feel seen.
I feel loved and appreciated for who I truly am.

 

[Metis]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

I had to chuckle at the last paragraph ok the original post
It just depends on the person I suppose. Type is a theory and, while we identify with it, it doesn't cover every single thing about us. There could be values dissonance at play here or just different styles of going about things. And everyone responds differently to things. You can have 5 ISFJs for example that will react to the exact same situation in 5 different ways
ENFPs are apparantly terrifying when pissed off though.... I feel bad for you....
I sometimes tend to conflict with Fe and Te at times. But flip a coin, and I get along great with Fe and Te users.

Yeah, 5 people of a single type can act in five different ways, but this is a pattern that I've been seeing, and it's also directed toward me and apparently not to very many others. That suggests to me that (1) their type, ENFP (I think), has something to do with it, even though not all and perhaps not even most ENFPs will do the same, and (2) it has something to do with me, whether or not it's related to my type.

It has happened several times that they get pissed off and flip out for no reason known to me. It's like they suddenly have a desire to control, or, more accurately, it becomes apparent that they had been trying to exert subtle control all along and that they suddenly freaked out because they felt like they might lose the control they were pretending not to have in the first place. All along, they were feigning an egalitarian standpoint, and then you realize that the egalitarian facade was actually just their way of getting their way. I don't provoke them deliberately or try to test boundaries, push envelopes, or anything of that nature. Somehow I unintentionally provoke their sense of control, or so it seems. Then they panic and go into dick mode and try to prove that they have the upper hand, even though from my standpoint, that switchover looks absurd.

Once they switch over, they become willing to throw away hours, weeks, sometimes even months of my hard work. They don't get physically threatening, and I wouldn't call them "terrifying"; it's more like they want to get back at me by undermining, devaluing my labor and wasting time, sometimes a lot of it, that I've already put in.

Another similarity, and I think it's probably a key one, is that they think I'm "disrespecting" them somehow, even though I'm not. They seem to think it's disrespectful not to perform emotional labor to their satisfaction, such as pretending to be jovial and excited when they are and you're not, or whatever. They want to be mirrored. They can get upset if you just want to do your damn job and not need to worry about satisfying people's emotional insecurities. Like, I'm showing you respect by showing up on time, handling the responsibilities that I've taken on, and taking the job seriously. But they don't seem to value that stuff, because they get taken advantage of all over the place by people who don't show up on time, don't take their responsibilities seriously, and instead charm them by acting all goofy, friendly, or affectionate with them. They're suckers for flattery of that kind. They seem to want emotional acquiescence WAY MORE than they want responsible focus on the job, even when they've hired you to do a job. That's the way it looks to me.

If you're the jokester/chaos sort of ENTP you're likely to run roughshod over an ENFP's sometimes delicate sensibilities so they freak the fuck out.

LOL I don't think that's what it is in the situations that I have in mind.

Fi, using its ability to entrance with authenticity and vulnerability to accomplish their Ni visions at someone else expende
(...)
Its the whole 'im drunk on this newfound power - too drunk to care about the consequences' phase.

Amargith,

I know you're talking about INTJs doing that, but that's more or less what I felt like these several ENFP types were doing.

All I can tell you is I'll never forget the day I saw an ENFP freaking out on a ENTP because of his post. I read the ENTP's post three times and still could not figure out what the hell the problem was.

Do you remember what the post was? Where can I read it? I want to see if I can figure it out!


I love this one.

 

[Metis]

They also don't pay in full if they feel disrespected. This is regardless of the quality of the work done, and they'll even say that the work was excellent. In the extreme, one didn't compensate me at all. That was in a situation in which the compensation was of the nature of credits and participation in the culminating event, not money. He used my work, but I didn't get to share in any of the benefit created by it.

 

[Amargith]

That is interesting. I experience the same from other types when they are directly above me. And yes, it seems to be rooted in that distinct difference of priorities.

Of course doing a good job matters, but to me, a good work environment where people can be themselves (ironically) and relax while doing the thing they love to the best of their abilities is worth gold. Ime, many T types, especially entps value that kind of freedom but don’t need or want or even see the use in that kind of environment. You could put hem in an emotional smog city and they’d keep polluting anyways while going after what *they* want. Which typically ruins the work environment for others who they consider weaklings who cant get shit done.

Now, thats just how it feels from this side of the aisle, mind you. It would see your enfps, while being in charge, dont like that you re not parttaking and, since they re the boss, are being pritective of this shit. Typically, though, your average enfp, though emotionally volatile, will be open to communication. In fact, they most likely have tried that alreaddy ( hence the tertiary Te flip outs when it doesnt work), but Ti and Fi are notoriously hard to align priority-wise. The only way to do it is through recognition of both their merits while using that shared love of Ne - new ideas, ime

If you find yourself in this situation again, id use those moments of communcation as a good time to remind the enfp ( especially if they re still in their 20’s) that you have different skills and have different emotional needs in a working environment. Cop to not being that in tume or needing to be that in tune with your wmotions and that you ll gladly delegate that to someone else. Enfps tend to be suckers for honest appreciation of individual needs and skill sets and will typically happily accomodate you. Gently remind them of this if they have a kneejerk reaction within a stress moment. It ll help them realise you re not doing this to distespect them or devalue them, but that it just isnt your wheelhouse and you re aware of it, which typically makes a huge difference. And it ll give them the additional data they need to accommodate your work flow properly. Entps tend to be notoriousky hard to read due to Ti, ime.
This is assuming they re actually willing to go the distance and be a good boss, of course.

As for the compensation, that just isnt right, and id call their asses on that in a calm way by communicating just how devalued it makes you feel and sharing that any miscommunication between you wasnt intentional, but that its nust not the way you work.

As for intjs - for them, its typically about getting a vision in place and theyre often willing to use Fi in a utelitarian way to bamboozle people to go along with it.

This seems more like a penalty for..well, undoing their work (unknowingly, it seems). A kind of tit for tat, almost. Not saying it was right or fair in your case , but yes, especially when i feel ive gone out of my way to make you comfortable and you then casually ruin what ive worked on so hard, i can get that way.

I deliberately try to accomodate all, and rarely invest myself in something to do so, but when i do get invested and passionate about it, i can be an outright bitch to those that would casually destroy the sandcastle ive worked on so hard, coz they coulldnt be arsed to take their ball game elsewhere, for example. The things i work with and value deeply tend to be very subtle and very fragile, meaning they often get destroyed easily. And their benefit is often not seen or felt until later, meaning it is often hard to defend them against those who dont see the point.

In any event, take this with a bag of salt. Im only one enfp, and i dont know the other enfps involved or you, so i made a bundle of crude assumptions based on the info available.


/2 cents

 

[Jaguar]

They also don't pay in full if they feel disrespected. This is regardless of the quality of the work done, and they'll even say that the work was excellent. In the extreme, one didn't compensate me at all. That was in a situation in which the compensation was of the nature of credits and participation in the culminating event, not money. He used my work, but I didn't get to share in any of the benefit created by it.

Unethical douchebaggery.

 

[notmyapples]

Unethical douchebaggery.

This right here. Nothing to do with type.

Aside from this occurrence, on a purely observer point of view, low-order Fe can be insulting to high-order Fi. I have a hard time liking XNTP's for this reason. I'm guessing what happens is you say some passing Fe comment which strikes at their Fi, expressing such through their Te, or as you so gracefully put it, 'dick mode'. Immature EXFP's without a good grasp on their Fi/Te axis can react this way and it seems very unexpected to most within the Ti/Fe axis.

I understand why an ENFP could be offended by the way a ENTP communicates. I've found myself leering a bit in shock at a few of the comments an ENTP I know will make, he'll say them with no care towards social reaction or etiquette. And I'm sure he only says those things in passing, forgetting them the instant they leave his mouth. But those comments are easier to be taken lightly if you have a closer relationship with someone or you are in a secure enough state of mind to brush past any unintended offenses without personal damage. Unhealthy Fi/Ne has a hard time disconnecting if they make a connection.

But a lot of things you mentioned don't seem as relevant to type as much as relevant to being a childish prick.

 

[Metis]

Amargith and notmyapples:

Interesting ideas on how an ENTP could come across.

Unethical douchebaggery.

True.

But a lot of things you mentioned don't seem as relevant to type as much as relevant to being a childish prick.

Yeah, they have some things in common aside from my thinking they're ENFPs. The main similarity is that they're all "artists". No offense to any arts people on this forum.

Two of them wanted to hug me after interviewing me for a job. I guess I should take that as a sign that what they're looking for is a best friend or something. And run! LOL