Feelers ability to use emotions to get things immoral?

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

That's not the point that Population 1 was trying to make. Emotional manipulation is not exclusive to feelers. Just the other day my ISTJ mother started giving me the silent treatment because she wanted me to feel the pain of me not listening to her, which is manipulation. In my rage, unable to counter this, I reacted by manipulation of my own, I decided to see if my mother would talk to me if I started starving myself and I went on a hunger strike for two days.

Here's an example of emotional manipulation from a thinker.

I also don't think that just because you can think of examples of times thinkers have used emotional manipulation, it somehow makes that a trait that is particularly exhibited by thinkers.

 

[Red Ribbon]

Sure but can you give an example of a time an INTJ might use emotional manipulation?

I was close with an INTJ woman and I can think of several examples of her being manipulative towards me.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Manipulation includes any tactics that bypass another person's full consent. If emotions are used to make someone feel pressured to comply without consent, or if they are used to convey false information to get someone's consent on false pretenses, then yes, emotions are an avenue for manipulation.

If emotions are communicated genuinely as truth, as the subjective information relevant to a problem or situation, then they are not being used as manipulation, but as a way for someone to have more full understanding to use to reason out their full consent.

Of course there can be a lot of grey area when those principles are applied to actual situations. If you know it hurts your hand to touch a burner, then that is important information so you can make a choice to avoid it. If a situation triggers emotional pain, then that can be factored into a choice to consent or not to a course of action. In this way the honest emotional information increases the ability to fully consent or not.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Sure but can you give an example of a time an INTJ might use emotional manipulation?

Withholding emotion is an especially effective form of manipulation. Try it on a child and it will ruin their psychological well being for life.

Another calculated form of manipulation is to make triggering statements for the purpose of causing the other person to become emotional while staying completely calm and rational. People who do this will find the emotional triggers in others, push the big red button, watch the other person become emotional, and then berate them with cool logic as the sane person who has to deal with the crazy nut. Sometimes people with deep, suppressed anger issues become expert at this so that they can make other people express the emotions they cannot pull up into their own conscious minds, plus they get to feel in control of the anger by controlling and demeaning the person they have triggered.

 

[Red Ribbon]

I also don't think that just because you can think of examples of times thinkers have used emotional manipulation, it somehow makes that a trait that is particularly exhibited by thinkers.

I also don't think that just because you can think of examples of times feelers have used emotional manipulation, it somehow makes that a trait that is particularly exhibited by feelers.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

I also don't think that just because you can think of examples of times feelers have used emotional manipulation, it somehow makes that a trait that is particularly exhibited by feelers.

That's not the only reason though, it's documented stuff. Sure thinkers are capable of it, but they on average are much less prone to it due to there more thoughtful nature. Their inclination is to analyze their emotions rather than act on them, making them more capable of seeing the inappropriateness of such an act

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Withholding emotion is an especially effective form of manipulation. Try it on a child and it will ruin their psychological well being for life.

Another calculated form of manipulation is to make triggering statements for the purpose of causing the other person to become emotional while staying completely calm and rational. People who do this will find the emotional triggers in others, push the big red button, watch the other person become emotional, and then berate them with cool logic as the sane person who has to deal with the crazy nut. Sometimes people with deep, suppressed anger issues become expert at this so that they can make other people express the emotions they cannot pull up into their own conscious minds, plus they get to feel in control of the anger by controlling and demeaning the person they have triggered.

That's not emotional manipulation, but good post nonetheless

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

I was close with an INTJ woman and I can think of several examples of her being manipulative towards me.

Yeah but I'm talking about a specific form of manipulation remember? Emotional manipulation

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I was close with an INTJ woman and I can think of several examples of her being manipulative towards me.

Feel free to list em though

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

That's not emotional manipulation, but good post nonetheless

Its effects are designed for emotional impact. Do you consider it manipulation?

The following is an article that outlines various kinds of manipulation, and many of these are not purely emotional in nature. The examples I gave are operating more for emotions.

14 Signs of Psychological and Emotional Manipulation
1. Home Court Advantage
2. Let You Speak First to Establish Your Baseline and Look for Weaknesses
3. Manipulation of Facts
4. Overwhelm You with Facts and Statistics
5. Overwhelm You with Procedures and Red Tape
6. Raising Their Voice and Displaying Negative Emotions
7. Negative Surprises
8. Giving You Little or No Time to Decide
9. Negative Humor Designed to Poke at Your Weaknesses and Disempower You
10. Consistently Judge and Criticize You to Make You Feel Inadequate
11. The Silent Treatment
12. Pretend Ignorance
13. Guilt-Baiting
14. Victimhood

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Its effects are designed for emotional impact. Do you consider it manipulation?

The following is an article that outlines various kinds of manipulation, and many of these are not purely emotional in nature. The examples I gave are operating more for emotions.

14 Signs of Psychological and Emotional Manipulation
1. Home Court Advantage
2. Let You Speak First to Establish Your Baseline and Look for Weaknesses
3. Manipulation of Facts
4. Overwhelm You with Facts and Statistics
5. Overwhelm You with Procedures and Red Tape
6. Raising Their Voice and Displaying Negative Emotions
7. Negative Surprises
8. Giving You Little or No Time to Decide
9. Negative Humor Designed to Poke at Your Weaknesses and Disempower You
10. Consistently Judge and Criticize You to Make You Feel Inadequate
11. The Silent Treatment
12. Pretend Ignorance
13. Guilt-Baiting
14. Victimhood

I was talking specifically of emotional manipulation in this post.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I was talking specifically of emotional manipulation in this post.

From my reading, there isn't a separate definition specifically for emotional manipulation outside of "psychological manipulation". The article I posted includes the list as demonstrating those traits. If you know a formal definition that separates out what you are talking about, it could be helpful to include. There is an emotional impact and component to most forms of manipulation, even when they are calculated and not expressing emotions directly.

 

[Red Ribbon]

That's not the only reason though, it's documented stuff. Sure thinkers are capable of it, but they on average are much less prone to it due to there more thoughtful nature. Their inclination is to analyze their emotions rather than act on them, making them more capable of seeing the inappropriateness of such an act

You talk about emotional manipulation being an intrinsic characteristic of feelers. You are cherry picking data to suit your narrative. When feelers do it, it is 'documented stuff.' How about you cite the place where it is documented? Give us the source where you read it? Or when I give you examples of thinkers doing it, it is somehow not inherent to their nature. Then you demonize the manipulation by asking if it is moral or not to which the answer is always, of course it is immoral.

This is typeism. This debate ends here.

Honestly I expected more from someone who claims to be an INTJ.

 

[Red Ribbon]

Yeah but I'm talking about a specific form of manipulation remember? Emotional manipulation

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Feel free to list em though

One example when the INTJ in question refused to talk to me because I was being friends with someone she didn't like.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

One example when the INTJ in question refused to talk to me because I was being friends with someone she didn't like.

Hmmm sounds more like esfj behavior to me, very cliquish.

 

[Yama]

Hmmm sounds more like esfj behavior to me, very cliquish.

Baseless stereotype.

 

[virtualinsanity]

"Turn their EMOTIONS on and off at will."

LMAO!

Sociopaths can do that.
"The endeth justifieth the-eth meaneth."

Perhaps if emotions had at least more than 40% to do with type, I'd consider the theory.
Feeling doesn't = Emotion in typology.

"I get the feeling this is wrong to do" is different than "This makes me want to cry" OR " being able to emote for selfish reasons. (Showing anger, sadness, happiness, joy, or excitement.)
Consider certain serial killers ...

 

[HisKittyKat]

I always chuckle when I read the word " Feelers "....I don't even know what that means. The same way I chuckle when I read the word " Thinker ".....It sounds to me like people who only feel or think as if they can't possibly do both.

Both can manipulate mentally and emotionally, both can master the art of manipulation.

Only because I know a few ESFJs personally I can agree with you with using their emotions for manipulation. I lived with a guy for almost 10 yrs who emotionally manipulated everything and everyone around him. It's been yrs since we've been together and to this day he is still manipulating his way through life. And although many would disagree with me lol, I have and always will think Fe is the master of manipulation. It's called freedom of speech so please don't go all INFJ on my wrist

 

[virtualinsanity]

I always chuckle when I read the word " Feelers "....I don't even know what that means. The same way I chuckle when I read the word " Thinker ".....It sounds to me like people who only feel or think as if they can't possibly do both.

Both can manipulate mentally and emotionally, both can master the art of manipulation.

Only because I know a few ESFJs personally I can agree with you with using their emotions for manipulation. I lived with a guy for almost 10 yrs who emotionally manipulated everything and everyone around him. It's been yrs since we've been together and to this day he is still manipulating his way through life. And although many would disagree with me lol, I have and always will think Fe is the master of manipulation. It's called freedom of speech so please don't go all INFJ on my wrist

I can understand why Fe, the specific function ..could be used that way.. but all humans, (unless you're living under a rock or are the biggest and boldest asswipe on Earth) -- use Fe, whether they realize it or not. (consciously or unconsciously.)
Just because someone uses Fe, this way doesn't mean they're an F, or an Fe user is all I'm saying. Furthermore, if they're using it that way, most of the time, a PD seems to be in the mix. (Or a controlling character..)
Therefore, any type has the capacity...but ..I can actually see good reason for the above quote.
I think the original post is goofy because :

1. One appears not to know that emotions don't have much to do with being T/F. (Not much.)
2. Unless you know what someone's motives are, you can't type them, confidently.. (Unless you're being stupid) .. just because they use a function, one way, most times.. Things don't work that way.

 

[HisKittyKat]

I can understand why Fe, the specific function ..could be used that way.. but all humans, (unless you're living under a rock or are the biggest and boldest asswipe on Earth) -- use Fe, whether they realize it or not. (consciously or unconsciously.)
Just because someone uses Fe, this way doesn't mean they're an F, or an Fe user is all I'm saying. Furthermore, if they're using it that way, most of the time, a PD seems to be in the mix. (Or a controlling character..)
Therefore, any type has the capacity...but ..I can actually see good reason for the above quote.

The closer Fe is in top 4 the more manipulation is obvious in their day to day activities, just saying. Yes we use all 8, Fe for me happens to be # 8 on a daily bases however it can be # 1 when with my lover, or showing love to people I care about deeply. Other than that Fi is my God sent.

 

[virtualinsanity]

The closer Fe is in top 4 the more manipulation is obvious in their day to day activities, just saying. Yes we use all 8, Fe for me happens to be # 8 on a daily bases however it can be # 1 when with my lover, or showing love to people I care about deeply. Other than that Fi is my God sent.

It's highly unrealistic to think all humans follow these stacks so neatly, too.(..or like you)..
Most importantly, Fe acts unconsciously in characters without it developed well. Unconscious functions probably means you're unaware it's filtering through other functions. (However, others may be able to see it in you.) I imagine emotional manipulation can happen at any given time, for any given type...as long as it needs. (So, it can show up lots for anyone.)
If I were a T user, (for the most part) but decided to "emote" for my own selfish gain, continuously, that doesn't make me Fe. It just makes me a Narcissistic asswipe. Emotional manipulation and extraverted ethics are not the same, although Fe is said to be able to express in order to manipulate. An Fi type may also emotionally express for selfish gain if that emotion were a negative one. (Te antagonist.)

(I imagine a handful of extroverted types, without Fe in the stack can pull off the same thing, quite awhile.) I just don't see the theory having any place in the real world nor logically, while discussing Typology.