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  1. #11
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    In general, I agree with you. However, Ptgatsby notes a tendency for Ns to have higher IQ scores, though not necessarily, because it's generally agreed that people who have high IQs or are seen as smart are more likely to misidentify as Intuitive by associating it with being smart. He also mentioned that people who have low IQs tend to go on to develop Sensory smarts rather than Intuitive smarts.

    People may have low IQs because of a lack of exposure to certain parts of the world, most likely due to cultural differences. Even "Culture Fair" IQs have a cultural bias. Culture Fair IQs tend to be the ones with sequential patterns. And believe it or not, you have to learn to determine the patterns properly in order to score correctly. Proper logical thinking isn't innate.

    IQs can actually change through time. Although IQ tests do test ability relative to age level, education and a broader mind can increase that.
    I have a theory on why Ns tend to have higher scores.

    As you might already know there's a correlation between big-5 O, IQ (even if small), and N MBTI preference.

    This means that people that tend to score as N, tend to score as having high O on the big-5, and tend to score higher on IQ tests.

    Now, we have to analyze the path of causality which is present here. In my opinion, it goes like this:

    Higher IQ then
    High O and High N

    So this means that irregardless of their real functional preference, high IQ people tend to score higher on N than lower IQ people - because let us face it there are certain questions in MBTI tests that can be equally tied to smarts and intuitive preference.

    In actuality, my observations are a tad more complex than that. There is a dependancy on the first function of the individual.

    Let me give you an example:
    ESFP Se dominant will score as ENFP because he/she will recognize him/herself as irrational but also as intuitive.
    ISFJ Fi dominant will score as ISTJ beecause he/she will recognize him/herself as rational but also thinking.
    We can go on and costruct a simple algorithm from there, so that ESxPs will score as ENxPs, IxFJs will score as IxTJs, ISxPs will score as INxPs, etc.

    This of course in case of very high IQ.

  2. #12
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I have a theory on why Ns tend to have higher scores.

    As you might already know there's a correlation between big-5 O, IQ (even if small), and N MBTI preference.

    This means that people that tend to score as N, tend to score as having high O on the big-5, and tend to score higher on IQ tests.

    Now, we have to analyze the path of causality which is present here. In my opinion, it goes like this:

    Higher IQ then
    High O and High N

    So this means that irregardless of their real functional preference, high IQ people tend to score higher on N than lower IQ people - because let us face it there are certain questions in MBTI tests that can be equally tied to smarts and intuitive preference.

    In actuality, my observations are a tad more complex than that. There is a dependancy on the first function of the individual.

    Let me give you an example:
    ESFP Se dominant will score as ENFP because he/she will recognize him/herself as irrational but also as intuitive.
    ISFJ Fi dominant will score as ISTJ beecause he/she will recognize him/herself as rational but also thinking.
    We can go on and costruct a simple algorithm from there, so that ESxPs will score as ENxPs, IxFJs will score as IxTJs, ISxPs will score as INxPs, etc.

    This of course in case of very high IQ.
    In general this seems reasonable, but remember that the MBTI only tests how you see yourself...so it is more people who think they are smart who will in theory tend to score more "N" than people who actually have a high IQ. Small distinction, but sometimes it makes a difference.

    Also, it would make sense to me (disclaimer: personal opinion, no stats, etc etc) that most of the people who are genius level (what is that, around 160?) are Ns, just because most of them I've seen/heard of give off that vibe. I think below that level there's less of a difference though. This could affect the average stats. Anyone know if a distribution of IQ levels according to types exists? Ie, X% of people with IQ X are X type? Or coming from the other direction, a distribution of IQs for each type? Maybe that's too specific for there to be an actual study on it though.

  3. #13
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    In general this seems reasonable, but remember that the MBTI only tests how you see yourself...so it is more people who think they are smart who will in theory tend to score more "N" than people who actually have a high IQ. Small distinction, but sometimes it makes a difference.
    I know personally a very clear ESFP with an IQ of 165 that tests as N because of her genius(she can deal with sensory details just as well as she deals with theory); as well as an ISFJ with an IQ of 153 that tests as T because she obviously uses analytical abilities in school and work matters.

    In any case, in my opinion a self-perception of being smart prerequests an outside check, so if a person perceives him/herself as being smart, there is a certain likelyhood of it being more true than false - at least, again, from my experience. It's actually more likely the opposite to happen - a smart person not believing in his/her smart due to excessively high self-imposed standards.

    Very interesting topic, anyway. To reply to your last question: I don't know.

  4. #14
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know personally a very clear ESFP with an IQ of 165 that tests as N because of her genius(she can deal with sensory details just as well as she deals with theory); as well as an ISFJ with an IQ of 153 that tests as T because she obviously uses analytical abilities in school and work matters.

    In any case, in my opinion a self-perception of being smart prerequests an outside check, so if a person perceives him/herself as being smart, there is a certain likelyhood of it being more true than false - at least, again, from my experience. It's actually more likely the opposite to happen - a smart person not believing in his/her smart due to excessively high self-imposed standards.
    Yeah yeah, I agreed with you in general, and of course most people who are smart will know it...but you can't deny that there are average or even dumb people out there who think they are smarter than the average person, can you? I've never seen a single person, anywhere, claiming an IQ less than 100...but I know they exist in droves, it's the bloody average! There's no way as many people have an IQ of 120-130 as you'd think from all the people claiming it, either. It's human nature to want to feel superior (read: smarter), I think.

    That was the only scenario I wanted to point out.

  5. #15
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Yeah yeah, I agreed with you in general, and of course most people who are smart will know it...but you can't deny that there are average or even dumb people out there who think they are smarter than the average person, can you? I've never seen a single person, anywhere, claiming an IQ less than 100...but I know they exist in droves, it's the bloody average! There's no way as many people have an IQ of 120-130 as you'd think from all the people claiming it, either. It's human nature to want to feel superior (read: smarter), I think.

    That was the only scenario I wanted to point out.
    Yeah, I agree with your point!

    In any case, thinking about it - we could say that people with a lower IQ don't like to make it public, it's plausible.

  6. #16
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know personally a very clear ESFP with an IQ of 165 that tests as N because of her genius(she can deal with sensory details just as well as she deals with theory); as well as an ISFJ with an IQ of 153 that tests as T because she obviously uses analytical abilities in school and work matters.

    In any case, in my opinion a self-perception of being smart prerequests an outside check, so if a person perceives him/herself as being smart, there is a certain likelyhood of it being more true than false - at least, again, from my experience. It's actually more likely the opposite to happen - a smart person not believing in his/her smart due to excessively high self-imposed standards.

    Very interesting topic, anyway. To reply to your last question: I don't know.
    I come out around 125 and most MBTI tests put me near boarder line on T/F and J/P
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  7. #17
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    :steam: Just how many people have actually been tested, formally, using something like the KAIT or WAIS. Meaning, you had a psychologist in the room giving you the test? Or even one that doesn't have sub-scales, but was professional administered.

    As far as self reporting. The lower your IQ, the more likely you are to overstate it. The higher your IQ, the more likely you are to underestimate it. The mid point seems to be about 115-120ish, where most people in the 90-110 range believe them to be in the 110-120 range, while many people in the 120-135 range cluster around the 120 range.

    About 10% of the population has an IQ of 120 or higher, so it's not that rare. Selective bias changes this significantly (ie: technical fields, or even higher end corporations are very biased towards the higher end... never mind a field of teaching or similar).

  8. #18
    Wait, what? Varelse's Avatar
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    I do have family who scored as S, and also had IQ around the 150 range as well. As far as my IQ goes, I have no idea. But I have encountered some STs that I would consider smarter than myself, though not really any SFs. Though that might be because I don't hang out with SFs that much either.
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  9. #19
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    The IQ is a bunch of shit biased in favor of N type thinking.

    There is too much NT ego masturbation on this site as it is.

  10. #20
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I really think that niffer's IQ proves that you cannot correlate IQ to type preference, at least not completely. Even it if it's generally true for a particular group of people, that doesn't prove it's true for everyone. Although I do imagine that INTJ's and INTP's would have the highest IQ's, based on the way the test is usually laid out.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    The IQ is a bunch of shit biased in favor of N type thinking.

    There is too much NT ego masturbation on this site as it is.
    I wouldn't talk if I were you...

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