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  1. #21
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Ah, see. A "P" would never think that thought! "this is the best one"
    They don't know it's the best until they have reached or surpassed the deadline.

    And they don't "worry" about possibilities.
    Possibilities are more like a field of poppies to run through rather than something to worry about.
    The Ps can correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at it from a J perspective, that's what it seems like to me.
    Possibilities are something I worry about! Oh yeah.
    That came out wrong my point was that they are sometimes so obsest with something which probability is below 1% and they want to be sure about something while there is not way that you can be sure about it.
    This is still too simple argument to be fully valid.

    To tell you the truth I think that J can also take a look from different perspective and give you a good advice.

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    That came out wrong my point was that they are sometimes so obsest with something which probability is below 1% and they want to be sure about something while there is not way that you can be sure about it.
    This is still too simple argument to be fully valid.

    To tell you the truth I think that J can also take a look from different perspective and give you a good advice.
    I don't believe Ps, in general, obsess.
    It sounds like you are calling it obsession, when it may be something else.
    You sound like you have had personal frustration head-butting with a P.

    My ISTP husband never obsesses about anything, and neither does my ISTP son.
    In fact, they are quite less likely to obsess since the P gives them a rather carefree attitude.
    You are going to have to get more specific with real-life examples.

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    ...
    To tell you the truth I think that J can also take a look from different perspective and give you a good advice.
    Yes, but Js tend to work from within a "box".
    For Ps, there is no box.

  4. #24
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Uhh. Well, I've tested as P recently. Nevertheless, I've planned to make 50-60hrs work a week for a month now, to pay my credit bills and to have some extra cash for an emergency. I've experimented with how much work I can do after what amount of sleep, for the purpose of squeezing most out of me in the least time possible. I plan to invest my time carefully, for relaxing things to do, something that will improve my ability to work. In the meantime, I'm organizing my monetary arrangements so I'll have the most money after this project.

    Afterwards, I plan to divide my time with work and free time more carefully, with me doing 40-46hrs work per week, using little money for my living and saving the rest. I'll invest the money on a one-year education to become a certified systems administrator. Later on, I'll plan to get a day job in systems administration, and continue my education in computer science, to become a Master of Science in about 5 years.

    I calculate the rewards and risks for being punctual or random in each case. For example. I felt like drinking 6 beers the last night; today work didn't go well, so I'll have to restrain myself from doing anything like that again. I invite my girlfriend to come at my place and expect her to come at any time; she's late, no worries - I've spent my happily playing computer games. I collapse early due to heavy work earlier in the day; no worries, I ask her to make food this time.

    I regret for my GF being uncompetitive and spending money as it comes. I'm into much more organized spending. I want to earn first, then spend. I've planned my general investment strategy, too, and how much money I need to start it up efficiently.

    So, this is what it means to be a P for me.

    Oh and free time? I'm playing wow. I've calculated what is the most efficient way to get my characters to my goal level, and where they'll be good at. I've deviated from the plan somewhat, and it bothers me. OTOH, I made great gold (virtual ingame money) with some good sales, so I guess it's OK to have altered my plans somewhat.

    When have I done the last really impulsive thing? I had a few friends at my house last saturday, and we watched a movie and had a free-flowing chat.

    So, 2 hours of impulsive stuff for me last week, and 100 hours planned, goal-orientated stuff, which went about 90-95% as planned.

    So should a good P be doing flip-flops on the street, singing and drinking? Doing improvisational comedy in every street corner? Canceling 90% of their meetings? Gambling their money away?
    I totally gotta be a P type then

    (OTOH it could also be that the similarity I notice is due to our shared enneagram type)
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I don't want to be rude but.... isn't this ilogical or even dangerous?


    When I stop planning because of sickness or something everything goes to hell.
    I have seen the behaviour you have described in other people and it looks that most of the time they are just ignoring the problem.
    Js tend to worry about the problems without regard to what happens in a worst-case scenario. They want to achieve as close to the best scenario possible, and will work toward that at any cost. To do less is to fail.

    Ps analyze the worst-case scenario for what it would mean in the end, and the worst case scenario is often considered acceptable. Therefore, they do not see the need to strive so hard to achieve the absolute best.

  6. #26
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm pretty sure that obsessing is not really within the sphere of my natural capability... I mean I get bursts of enthusiasm for my current interests or curiosities, but that's all it is, it's enthusiasm and it's positive, I'm happy and laughing and loving it and often infecting others with that enthusiasm. But it then passes onto something else, because I've seen the link between the previous thing and this other thing. In fact to me, they're all just one 'thing', whilst my J friends see me as 'grasshopping', I don't see what I do that way at all. To my mind, I've been following one very logical and obvious line of enquiry.

    I don't worry about things. I'm not a worrier at all. Reason being that regardless of what shit I've been through (and let me tell you.... hahaha... etc), somehow I'm still alive, still breathing, and still loving it. So, y'know... as Jack said, I don't feel this driving need for things to be what the J would call best case scenario. To me, the steps necessary in achieving that scenario make the cost of its achievement too high, thereby negating its status in my mind as best case scenario; it becomes undesirable, in fact.

    I can plan and organize if I want to. I can't stand other people planning me and organizing me though. I don't flake; I keep my commitments. But that's because I don't make them without due consideration of the probability of keeping them entailing paying a price I consider too high, on balance.

    Also, events have a habit of unfolding in a way that's often different from what we expected; therefore I don't expect anything. I refrain from expectation as much as humanly possible, and simply deal with reality directly, interface with it directly as it unfolds. Plans, schedules and policies tend to generally be necessary evils for me, that interrupt with my smooth and natural, spontaneous weaving of myself and my life into the fabric of reality. So I prefer to keep them to a minimum.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    ...
    Ps analyze the worst-case scenario for what it would mean in the end, and the worst case scenario is often considered acceptable. Therefore, they do not see the need to strive so hard to achieve the absolute best.
    Oh REAL-ly?! Is THAT how they do it!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Oh REAL-ly?! Is THAT how they do it!
    Was that a rhetorical question? Anyway, the answer is "Yes'm, in my experience, 'tis."

  9. #29
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I don't believe Ps, in general, obsess.
    It sounds like you are calling it obsession, when it may be something else.
    You sound like you have had personal frustration head-butting with a P.

    My ISTP husband never obsesses about anything, and neither does my ISTP son.
    In fact, they are quite less likely to obsess since the P gives them a rather carefree attitude.
    You are going to have to get more specific with real-life examples.
    That is true to some degree, but the part about what I am talking about is that they put much time in effort to be ready for everything.
    They have huge problems with the idea that some stuff should be in garbage.
    What probably leads to disarray on the long run.



    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Yes, but Js tend to work from within a "box".
    For Ps, there is no box.
    I don't agree with this.
    For example NTJ are very good in thinking outside the box and my unconventional thinking is probably my greatest strength. What means that there are no boxes that should dictate some "natural" order.
    For me there are just countless objects and even more ways how to arrange them.


    I have opened this thread because I am totally surrounded by Ps.


    You live in the US so you don't know how it is like to live in society where Ps are dominant in group.
    The catch is that when you get critical number of Ps they stimulate each other in not to making decisions.

    Some examples

    Guy says he will be there but on his way he changes his mind and goes somewhere else.

    Since cell phones started situation is out of control because cell phones allow you to avoid decision. It is social rule to end conversation with "I will call you"
    So entire nation just waits for some phone call and no one does not want to make one and make a deal because they are waiting for other offers.
    Which will not came, because others are waiting also.

    You call a repairman and the deal is that he comes in xx:xx hours and he does not come because he had someone else in that time but he made a deal with you because he was thinking that the problem was not so big at the other place. So he was hopping that he will make it.

    Or people that don't have what it takes for some decision so they beg you to push them to make it.

    State institutions work in the same way.
    This are some examples of how society full of Ps looks like.

  10. #30
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    State institutions work in the same way.
    This are some examples of how society full of Ps looks like.
    The more J you are, the more Ps there seem to be

    For the most part, Ps are best understood by their lack of closure. Js need closure - to ideas, to events, to time, to just about anything... Ps don't and actively resist closing things off.


    The need to be ready has a lot more to do with security. A P may appear to obsess if they are insecure, and a J may become a control freak. It just creates more defined behaviour in different types.

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