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  1. #91
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    ajblaise doesn't have to go on any spiritual pursuit because he's Jesus incarnate,
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  2. #92
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bella View Post
    ajblaise doesn't have to go on any spiritual pursuit because he's Jesus incarnate,
    Exactly, people undertake spiritual pursuits just for the chance to take in my essence.

  3. #93
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I think they would be, but the fact that social tradition in many places emphasizes spirituality, more Js will be into it, just for that fact.

    But in America, I bet there is more P Buddhists, New Ager's, and "Christians" so liberal they barely believe in Jesus.... than Js.

    I agree.

    That is why I have said spiritual pursuit. For Js it can be just a duty.

  4. #94
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I agree.

    That is why I have said spiritual pursuit. For Js it can be just a duty.
    Yeah, many of them are poseurs who do no more than wear the label.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Ps are anti-schedule because schedules interrupt whatever we were doing or thinking about doing. If this is really obvious, I'm sorry.
    I agree with Flak. Being INFP, I get even more frustrated when someone tells me they are going to be interrupting me ahead of time. I can handle it when something "planned" pops up, but as soon as someone tells me they are planning to interrupt me, I "plan" to not be available.


    What's the point if neither of them wins? Or do they both win? Or am I giving far too much credit to the programmers of a few interpreted pixels?

  6. #96
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Why Ps have so much problems with plans?

    I don't see why you can't have intellectual moments and planning in the same box.

    If you can't, that only means that the plan is not good enough.

  7. #97
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    yes i do this kind of shit all the time...tertiary Te Juggernaut mode FTW!!!!


    I will often give up studying at 12am because Im tired....then set my alarm for 4 30am to finish studying for the test...
    This is what I would do when I was in college. I'd usually mostly procrastinate studying until the night before, so I'd study until I got tired, catch a few hours' sleep, then get up and study a couple of hours before the test, to cram it into my short term memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Why Ps have so much problems with plans?

    I don't see why you can't have intellectual moments and planning in the same box.

    If you can't, that only means that the plan is not good enough.
    We just like to keep our options open. Regimented plans make us feel trapped, and they take all the fun out of things. My sister's an ISTJ, and plans enable her to have fun, because they give her structure and boundaries between which she can open up and enjoy herself. Having plans that can't ever be modified or broken makes me feel like I've been put in a cage.

    One of my mom's good friends is the most J person I think I've ever met, and she wanted me to help her plan a bridal shower one time. We nearly drove each other nuts. She wanted to decide every little detail, months and months in advance. She wanted to have the food, the decorations, the tablecloths, etc. etc. all figured out, budgeted for, etc., nearly six months in advance. And this was a very informal shower, less than 50 people, held at the church. I just couldn't see the need for that amount of rigid planning for something that was not a life or death situation. I knew that we had some good resources, and that the shower was going to be a success, no matter what, and that we had some time to mull it over before we had to come to any major decisions.

    One thing I think Js don't realize is that Ps will very often be mulling stuff over in our heads, thinking of the possibilities for as long as we can. It might not look like we're doing anything, because you don't see immediate results. But when the deadline hits, we'll have your result, and it'll be just as good.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Why Ps have so much problems with plans?

    I don't see why you can't have intellectual moments and planning in the same box.

    If you can't, that only means that the plan is not good enough.
    I think most P's are type B personalities. But here is a perspective from a P-type who is a type A personality...

    There is a balance. For me, I only plan if things are important to me, and simply cannot be improvised.

    Nothing really complex that is being done the first time goes according to plan, nothing.

    Simple things, yes. Travel, under most circumstances. Small-size programs or circuits. Planning an education, and other things like that.

    If you've done that something many times over and you've honed the process, then the complex things become simple and can be appropriately planed. But if that can be done, it is boring. It needs to be done, often. But it's still boring.

    Simple things that you haven't done that other people can teach you, can also go according to plan, if the other person is good at planning.


    I know people who are rather good at planning complex projects, and here is what I found... the best planners know that their plan needs to be too-simple, and based on severe (and I can't put too much emphasis on this) over-budgeting.

    The unfortunate thing is at the expense of having a plan where things will get done on-time and under-budget, the project itself never starts (because it is too damn costly). Sometimes you just have to jump in an begin, on principle, without plan or budget, with an eye towards breaking whatever assumptions people have had in the past to get things done.

    Ideally, the severely over-budgeted thing should be respected for what it is, but that doesn't happen.

    On the other hand, nothing really complex has been done without a plan. The act of planning itself is useful work, even if they plan itself is way of the mark. It gets you engaged, and begun (in a way), as long as you know that no plan is going to be perfect or flexible enough, or account for all the contingencies.

    On the flip side, short-term, simple, plans are immensely useful for motivation and keeping a good pace. But always being in this mode make you miss big process improvements you can make.

    As to the comments about disarray. I have a need to push my abilities past the point of success. If I am not failing half the time, I get a bit anxious (and bored). I know I over do it sometimes. I tend to neglect many of the things that are not in my focus simply because I am focusing. But the disarray that comes from exertion and failure is a necessity for me.

    I know I have to tone it down. But it is hard to do.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  9. #99
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    This is what I would do when I was in college. I'd usually mostly procrastinate studying until the night before, so I'd study until I got tired, catch a few hours' sleep, then get up and study a couple of hours before the test, to cram it into my short term memory.



    We just like to keep our options open. Regimented plans make us feel trapped, and they take all the fun out of things. My sister's an ISTJ, and plans enable her to have fun, because they give her structure and boundaries between which she can open up and enjoy herself. Having plans that can't ever be modified or broken makes me feel like I've been put in a cage.

    One of my mom's good friends is the most J person I think I've ever met, and she wanted me to help her plan a bridal shower one time. We nearly drove each other nuts. She wanted to decide every little detail, months and months in advance. She wanted to have the food, the decorations, the tablecloths, etc. etc. all figured out, budgeted for, etc., nearly six months in advance. And this was a very informal shower, less than 50 people, held at the church. I just couldn't see the need for that amount of rigid planning for something that was not a life or death situation. I knew that we had some good resources, and that the shower was going to be a success, no matter what, and that we had some time to mull it over before we had to come to any major decisions.

    One thing I think Js don't realize is that Ps will very often be mulling stuff over in our heads, thinking of the possibilities for as long as we can. It might not look like we're doing anything, because you don't see immediate results. But when the deadline hits, we'll have your result, and it'll be just as good.
    I think you will be suprised how much I undestand.

    As I have said before often Ps think that they have J/P conflict and what they actally have is S/N conflict.
    The thing you have described with you example in not J it is OCD.
    Just because someone plans alot that does not mean that they are actually good planners.

    J changes very much depending on the other 3 letters.

    Everything you have said applys to me also and I am strong J.
    One of the things I am trying to prove with this thread is that being J has nothing to do with the ability to be open minded. J is more about beign determined or not being spontaneous.
    For example: knowing when to plan and how to plan or not planning just because you want to get simpathy of Ps that could prove useful in the future.


    The only differnces between us is that I will use more fanaticism more contigency planning and be more open minded toward the idea of conflict.

  10. #100
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I think you will be suprised how much I undestand.

    As I have said before often Ps think that they have J/P conflict and what they actally have is S/N conflict.
    The thing you have described with you example in not J it is OCD.
    Just because someone plans alot that does not mean that they are actually good planners.

    J changes very much depending on the other 3 letters.

    Everything you have said applys to me also and I am strong J.
    One of the things I am trying to prove with this thread is that being J has nothing to do with the ability to be open minded. J is more about beign determined or not being spontaneous. For example: knowing when to plan and how to plan or not planning just because you want to get simpathy of Ps that could prove useful in the future.


    The only differnces between us is that I will use more fanaticism more contigency planning and be more open minded toward the idea of conflict.

    Ah, okay. I think I see what you mean. Do you feel like you need structure/planning in most situations? Or prefer to have a goal in mind? A lot of Js I know, when they go on vacation, tend to have a list of things they want to see/accomplish, and tend to want to leave the house by a certain time in order to maximize efficiency and make the destination by sundown, etc. Of course, the Js I know might also have a touch of OCD.

    I have to say, though, the NFJs are generally pretty go-with-the-flow, IME. They might think about in advance how it might go, and might make loose plans, but then they're pretty flexible, which makes them fun to travel with.

    The conflict thing is interesting to me. I just don't know if I have enough evidence to say, one way or another. I generally hate conflict, and am flexible to a fault. But if someone gets really rigid with me, that's when I'll usually snap and have a moment of snark at the over-planner.

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