Something to consider - F vs T

[Bella]

Okay, I'm taking back the death penalty as an option as I'm not sure how I feel about that but my idea of justice would be some form of punishment despite the persons background. The background shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Kora]

But nobody is motivated by the same things. Every individual is unpredictable, and you can't measure everybody by the same standards, not because it is fair or not, just because it's inexact, and you're not getting whole justice.
Maybe what is justice for me it isn't for another person, but still both 'justices' are... justice.

 

[prplchknz]

context. Everything in context. Most of the time I think no one is above the law. but there are rare instances where I'll make exceptions. I mean if you know the consequences, and still willing to take the risk, then you need to accept that you might not like the outcome. And everyone else in the world has had to live with a result they wish they didn't so why should anyone by above that?

their's laws I don't agree with.

 

[Bella]

But where would you draw the line. One murderer was molested and emotionaly abused as a child, one is just kooky, are you going to punish them differently because of different backgrounds. I don't think that's right. My humble opinion.

 

[prplchknz]

But where would you draw the line. One murderer was molested and emotionaly abused as a child, one is just kooky, are you going to punish them differently because of different backgrounds. I don't think that's right. My humble opinion.

what's the crime?

and backgrounds no I probably wouldn't. it more has to do with mental age then anything else.

 

[Bella]

murder

 

[prplchknz]

murder no matter what should be punished. their's no excuse for taking a life of another.

 

[Kora]

But where would you draw the line. One murderer was molested and emotionaly abused as a child, one is just kooky, are you going to punish them differently because of different backgrounds. I don't think that's right. My humble opinion.

No, no. I'd punish them equally, since they have done the same. I don't believe that tragic pasts may exhime one of their guilt.
But I also think that the causants of the emotional scarring of the first murderer should be punished too. If they didn't create a monster, a person wouldn't have died. It's naïve and childish, but, oh well.

 

[Bella]

no actually, it doesn't matter waht the crime is.

 

[Bella]

No, no. I'd punish them equally, since they have done the same. I don't believe that tragic pasts may exhime one of their guilt.
But I also think that the causants of the emotional scarring of the first murderer should be punished too. If they didn't create a monster, a person wouldn't have died. It's naïve and childish, but, oh well.

Yes, I understand what you're saying. It's a vicious cycle.
This reminds me of the movie 'Monster'. Despite the opinion I have here, when I watched that movie I was thinking, but, but...It's not her fault!!

 

[Kora]

Yes, I understand what you're saying. It's a vicious cycle.
This reminds me of the movie 'Monster'. Despite the opinion I have here, when I watched that movie I was thinking, but, but...It's not her fault!!

I think justice doesn't resume to punishing criminals. Would be more like having a society in which that kind of acts doesn't happen (boy, I sound totally idealistic here).
And yes, I thought the same about Monster. But people need demons. It's easier to think that there's "evil people" than "evil environments in which we're all a little bit guilty".

 

[Bella]

I think justice doesn't resume to punishing criminals. Would be more like having a society in which that kind of acts doesn't happen (boy, I sound totally idealistic here).
And yes, I thought the same about Monster. But people need demons. It's easier to think that there's "evil people" than "evil environments in which we're all a little bit guilty".

Oh, you mean heaven?

Is idealism typically an INTP thing? Pardon my ignorance.

 

[ajblaise]

Is idealism typically an INTP thing? Pardon my ignorance.

Cynicism is more of an INTP thing.

 

[Kora]

Cynism comes after you realize how stupid and futile is your idealism. Which is usually at a young age.

 

[Bella]

thank you ajblaise.
Kora, I think being wholeheartedly disillusioned with life is the perfect state to be in.

 

[miss fortune]

So sort of the difference between studying cultures on an across the board measure or by a culturally relativist viewpoint?

Meaning- are we judging things based on an unchanging ruler or does each culture get a ruler based on the qualities of that culture?

I would almost think that that would be the biggest difference between a TJ type and an FP type, since J and P would seem to play into the absolutist attitude to me as well. P lends the beleif in more gray areas while J likes the black and white.

I can see that an F would be more interested in the personal qualities of a person- the "why?" of the person while a T would look at the "what?"- the more impersonal side of the issue.

That's just my poorly disorganized thoughts though I guess

 

[Nocapszy]

The principles of it are simple, the implications complex. Hence shadows and stuff.

Let's face it, according to some neurons are all we have... 1s and 0s. How can ANYTHING be that complex?

Hehehe...

And you think that you've found that simplistic principle?
T and F is as simple as that huh?

Oh wait... it all works except until you recognize that you have, in fact, postulated an implication, rather than a principle.

And the implications are complex, you're correct.

 

[edcoaching]

I've often heard the fairness thing described as...

T's want everyone to have an equal chance
F's want people to have a chance they deserve.

And...Grisham wrote at least two books to get at the idea of justice

The Chamber, where a murderer is being executed, but he's innocent of the crime he's actually accused of. Where's the justice adn do we want the system working that way...

A View to a Kill, where a black man in the deep south shoots the men who raped his little girl but were acquitted in the pre Civil Rights era. Was it wrong when there was no justice?

I'm not really sugesting we debate these, just that Grisham raises the issues in the stickiest situations imaginable to get us to see how difficult they are...

 

[Kora]

T's want everyone to have an equal chance
F's want people to have a chance they deserve.

But everybody deserves a equal chance.

Kora, I think being wholeheartedly disillusioned with life is the perfect state to be in.

At least, we're ready for the worst.

 

["?"]

Just a side note, these aren't my definitions. I found them in the introduction to MBTI that I'm re-reading. If the book is to be believed the definitions are Ms Isabel's.

And these are very good definitions that should once and for all dismiss the notion that one has to do with cognition and the other emotions. They're both based on cognitive decision making, but thinkers want everyone to be treated the same under similar conditions whereas feelers believe that the circumstances should always be considered. It also reaffirmed that I am a thinking type.