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  1. #21
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Since when are Ps consumed by frivolity?
    When did the Js stake their claim on progress and success?

    Does no one bother to look for introverted functions anymore or is it that they manifest too incomprehensibly?

  2. #22
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Since when are Ps consumed by frivolity?
    When did the Js stake their claim on progress and success?
    You can be extremely successful and deep in something that is considered as an hobby. For a stereotypical example you have Einstein, for a more extensively present you have athletes.

    Regarding schedules, I love schedules as long as they aren't too rigorous, pointless, or confined. I do the same thing FDG does in thinking of all the things I have to do that day. I helps me to not panic. Because I can and will if I suddenly realise I'm without a plan of some sort. I get lost, feel at sea, and have no idea what I want/should/need to do. (I envy you people who can think on your feet like a deft, swashbuckling swordsman.)
    If I have nothing to do, I panick only if it's rainy outside, because I'll get bored otherwise, I just go at the park sunbathing (except when it's december-january)
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #23
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true.
    Maybe I'm just a weird example, but I actually hold true to the OP. I'm very chill about my hobbies. Maybe that's just because if SJs were anal-retentive about everything (as some people tend to think, albeit falsely), there wouldn't be any "fun"... just "business". We need to be chill about something - it might as well be something that you aren't paid to do. Being chill about a paying job, for me at least, is dangerous.

    As far as "goals" go. I've never seen the need to work myself to exhaustion in order to achieve a given "goal".
    That's probably more of an SJ thing... specifically an ESTJ thing
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I think I just love to invest my energies and emotions into things that I like on my own whims. When I played soccer I would love and hate practices because it was imposed and mandatory, but I loved the freedom you had in scrimmages to just goof off and do something you enjoy.

    I LOVED the games because you could focus your intensity levels in accordance to a varying situation. I think when it comes down to it when I'm willing to exert energy and effort on something I need the comfort of knowing that the highs and lows will not adversely affect me. Schedules unfortunately are usually built to curb the varying productivity levels and maintain a more consistent level while hobbies allow for it.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  5. #25
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    It could be because P's are possibly more prone to not being in the work they want to do, since flexibility is a prime requisite and that's exactly what you don't get in most jobs, especially those at the lower end to middle of the pay scale... so perhaps P's are more likely to see their paid work as just a means to an end, and that to get their satisfaction/reward from life they have to do it by their spare time pursuits. Whilst J's might get more satisfaction from their work and therefore not invest as much psychologically in their hobbies?

    Just an instant theory
    Don't know. Makes sense, but then assuming I'm a 'J', I run counter to that because I've never been terribly satisfied with work, and have often ended up having to convince myself that work is just a means to an end. That doesn't sit well with me though.

    I aspire to a job that really does give me satisfaction in life, and gives me many benefits and rewards (emotional/psychological benefits), but I often think that job doesn't exist and I'll always have to seek outside for those pieces.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #26
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true. If you compare IJ to IP, I'd say it still holds true because the IJ is more likely to focuss on activities that are "strictly necessary".

    I think that ENTJs are often not included in the reasoning of "a scheduled job provides J with security", but anyway I have to say that this is something I don't relate to at all. I'd value the freedom of making my own schedule over a superimposed one. You can give me deadlines and I'll never miss one, but don't tell me where and when and how to do the work, please. I work a lot more efficiently when I can organize myself.

    As far as "goals" go. I've never seen the need to work myself to exhaustion in order to achieve a given "goal". There's plenty of time in a given day, there's always plenty of time to reach a given goal, with a bit of organization you can enjoy lots of free time and still be very productive without burning out. The only time in which a goal requires overworking is when all that you're trying to do is avoiding failure at all costs by covering all the possible bases. But I'd call it "risk mismanagement"; you can't "dream big" and also live decently if you don't allow for a little risk.
    This rings really true for me as an INFJ. I can meet goals much more efficiently than half my coworkers, so don't tell me how, when, or how long.

    Hobbies...My work is really as interesting as my hobbies. But I'm self-employed I find I need to almost schedule my hobbies--theater tickets with a friend, book club, library due dates on books, etc., or I won't get to them so i'll agree with the OP
    edcoaching

  7. #27
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    Responding to original post:

    Are those hobbies or just methods of procrastination? If something is enjoyable for a P, it's not surprising that they will spend a lot of time on it, since they have a play first and work later attitude. What better way to fill the time?
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #28
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You can be extremely successful and deep in something that is considered as an hobby. For a stereotypical example you have Einstein, for a more extensively present you have athletes.
    Correct.

    Those were rhetorical questions by the way. I had hoped my prose would give it away but I guess I can't expect a Thinking dominant to comprehend -- I call it the Dwight Schrute syndrome.

    You are correct though, and how very astute. Most wouldn't even recognize alternative contingencies. Responding in kind would have been especially difficult.

    Additionally, there are P's who do extremely well in... basically anything. Anything that tickles their introverted judgement.


    This is what I'm talking about when I say no one attends the introverted/extraverted side of the marks (or perhaps we've muddled our understanding...).
    Bluewing minds it too much. Everyone else ignores it completely. I am mother bear's porridge.

    If a strongly expressed Ti likes running a small business, the Ti will run their small business very well. If the same Ti instead likes jigsaw puzzles, holding down a job will be immensely difficult, as he will be too distracted by his puzzles.

    He has his own goals. Rather than having goals established by society like the Te types.

    It's simple math folks.

    FDG seems to know his arithmetic.

  9. #29
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    I don't have that sense of duty or whatever it is J's have to actually focus on work (something not fun), and would rather engulf myself in my hobbies because I am self-indulgent that way.

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