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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to like any job I have until I create it myself. Until that time I have to pay the bills somehow, and that means I work in some job I don't particularly care for.
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  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes, to be bound to the schedules and routines, rules and policies of working for someone else, is pretty repressive and miserable for a P... it's just a case of gritting your teeth through it to keep the roof over your head. But for a J those things provide you with the security and certainty that you crave.
    My job pertains to one of my biggest lifelong interests, and yet, things have changed; entering the information age with the internet, and the job is so controlling, timewise, and all I want to do now is share information.

    It is definitely the "other man's" schedules that drives me up the wall, rather than the work itself. Keirsey even redesignated "Judging" as "Scheduling" (and P is "Probing"), and J's tend to be work first play later. I think even some test questions pertaining to J/P ask something like that. So J's will put their energy into meeting the schedules, where P's will put their energy into more free pursuits like inerests. How many P children must have heard from J parents "You put all that effort into interests, but not into your responsibilities!"

    Some people say we shouldn't focus on the J/P dichotomy so much, but find that it is very distinctive.
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  3. #13
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true. If you compare IJ to IP, I'd say it still holds true because the IJ is more likely to focuss on activities that are "strictly necessary".

    I think that ENTJs are often not included in the reasoning of "a scheduled job provides J with security", but anyway I have to say that this is something I don't relate to at all. I'd value the freedom of making my own schedule over a superimposed one. You can give me deadlines and I'll never miss one, but don't tell me where and when and how to do the work, please. I work a lot more efficiently when I can organize myself.

    As far as "goals" go. I've never seen the need to work myself to exhaustion in order to achieve a given "goal". There's plenty of time in a given day, there's always plenty of time to reach a given goal, with a bit of organization you can enjoy lots of free time and still be very productive without burning out. The only time in which a goal requires overworking is when all that you're trying to do is avoiding failure at all costs by covering all the possible bases. But I'd call it "risk mismanagement"; you can't "dream big" and also live decently if you don't allow for a little risk.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #14
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    It depends on what or how big the goal is. Sometimes if you work double hard, you can get it done it double quickly, this works well for money-related goals.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    FDG - the point is that you actually want a schedule, whether it's your own that you prefer over someone else's is beside the point; the P doesn't want one, period.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    I like doing what I want when I want.
    If something becomes an obligation, I feel aversion towards it.
    5w4 - Idiosyncratic/Leisurely/Dramatic
    It's the devil's way now.

  7. #17
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    FDG - the point is that you actually want a schedule, whether it's your own that you prefer over someone else's is beside the point; the P doesn't want one, period.
    Allright, uhm, let me understand, like P types never think "Okay today in the morning I'll do this, then in the early afternoon this, then at 4 I'll call my friend" or something? They (you) decide things always without pre-thinking about them?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #18
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, I disagree. It's not J or P related, or rather - not strictly. If you compare an IJ to an EP what you say holds true. If you compare an EJ to an EP it doesn't hold true. If you compare IJ to IP, I'd say it still holds true because the IJ is more likely to focuss on activities that are "strictly necessary".

    I think that ENTJs are often not included in the reasoning of "a scheduled job provides J with security", but anyway I have to say that this is something I don't relate to at all. I'd value the freedom of making my own schedule over a superimposed one. You can give me deadlines and I'll never miss one, but don't tell me where and when and how to do the work, please. I work a lot more efficiently when I can organize myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    FDG - the point is that you actually want a schedule, whether it's your own that you prefer over someone else's is beside the point; the P doesn't want one, period.
    Yeah; I didn't get into "whose" schedule was being met, but yes, in an ENTJ, it would not be so much about "a scheduled job provides security", but would be more about making your own schedule over a superimposed one. With me, I don't want a schedule imposed either, but even if it is self-imposed. I often end up cutting out planned activities for running out of time, and they get pushed back, and while I don't like that, I would still rather have that freedom to complete or cut out whatever I want at my own pace.
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  9. #19
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Yeah; I didn't get into "whose" schedule was being met, but yes, in an ENTJ, it would not be so much about "a scheduled job provides security", but would be more about making your own schedule over a superimposed one. With me, I don't want a schedule imposed either, but even if it is self-imposed. I often end up cutting out planned activities for running out of time, and they get pushed back, and while I don't like that, I would still rather have that freedom to complete or cut out whatever I want at my own pace.
    Ok, I understand better now. So it seems that P types always see schedules as being a limit, and have a more rigid view of them - either they completely met them, or ditch/cut out plans. J types are more liberated by their schedules and meet them with "pleasure" so to speak, eventually changing them as they see fit (whereas a P type would not change the schedule - he'd simply ditch it).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #20
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Well, see...what would have been a hobby has become my work. I have done, and am still doing, all that I can to see to it that what I love doing and have always done naturally are made the primary focus of my life and if I can earn money while doing it, +100 points in my mind. So, I suppose I would be dedicated to my "hobby" which is simultaneously my work. I have other hobbies, though, that can slip and get buried under all the other things to be done that seem more important to me (like keeping a journal/blogging...yeah can't remember to do it more than three times a year).

    Regarding schedules, I love schedules as long as they aren't too rigorous, pointless, or confined. I do the same thing FDG does in thinking of all the things I have to do that day. I helps me to not panic. Because I can and will if I suddenly realise I'm without a plan of some sort. I get lost, feel at sea, and have no idea what I want/should/need to do. (I envy you people who can think on your feet like a deft, swashbuckling swordsman.)
    "I took the one less traveled by,
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