• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Why is INTJ a recommended pairing for ENFP but not INFP?

reckful

New member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
656
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
On average, I think INFPs tend to be better at sensing an INTJ's shortcomings (in the relationship department) right up front, before a relationship gets underway, whereas ENFPs are more likely to have to learn about INTJs the hard way.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
When asked, Jung said, that the opposite attitude of the function would be his guess from an interview. But that was off the cuff and he didn't place much thought in it since that wasn't his focus.

My guess is, that MBTI used it because those functions are opposites (the top two), they bring out the worst in each other (the dominant functions are at war), however, the worst would be classified as the unconscience of each type, or otherwise known as the shadow. Those last two functions indicates what the shadow is.

So in theory, the two types are supposed to "grow" together, like in therapy, by bringing out the worste of each other. But if both parties don't agree to it, or see the point or necessity of this process. it is doomed from the beginning.

Who said life is easy, those old couples still together today must have gone through some heavy stuff to make it through to the end. If only I can find an example.

Socionics, where the INTJ in MBTI maps 80% of the time to ILI-INTp makes the IEE-ENFp each other's Illusionary "partner"

Illusionary, or mirage, relations, like semi-duality, are similar to duality in that many of each partners' functions directly correspond to the unconscious expectations of the other. In relations of semi-duality partners' odd-numbered functions match those of the other person's dual, while in illusionary relations it is the even-numbered functions. That is, partners' use of their 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 8th functions more or less meets the other's expectations, while the rest are the opposite of what is expected for comfortable interaction. In practice this translates to a perception that the other person can be useful in solving practical issues that arise, but partners do not find each other fascinating ”as they do duals or semi-duals” due to an absence of suggestion through their 5th function.

At a distance, illusionary partners may experience a wide range of attitudes to each other ”from like to mutual mockery” but this is generally true of most intertype relations. In closer contact, partners find they can be of practical assistance to each other in a variety of ways, even if they are not driven to become close emotionally. Leadership duties are divided naturally between partners, one of which is extraverted and the other introverted, and who both share a common rational or irrational approach to living. Despite this significant underlying compatibility, prolonged interaction leads to a dissatisfaction with everything about the relationship that is related to the other's leading function. Partners unconsciously expect the other person to accept their general sentiments about things and build upon them, but illusionary partners inevitably present their own completely independent worldviews that are somewhat at odds with the other's. This is because if one partner's leading function is Si, the other's is Se; or, if one's is Fe, the other's is Fi, and so on. Partners' worldviews, central values, and general approaches are similar in that they focus on similar kinds of things, but they are hardly compatible in practice. Where one sees opportunities that must be developed immediately, the other wants to wait and do nothing for the time being. Then, the tables turn and the other person suddenly feels it is time to do something, while the other believes that there is nothing to be done at the moment.

Illusionary relations occur between two types, each of which has the others' "hidden agenda" (6th) function as their creative (2nd) function. However, one's leading (1st) function is the others' ignoring (7th) function. This means that the two are like a dual couple on how they interact with the world, but not on how they view the world. Illusionary relations tend to appear close or compatible from an outside perspective, but the partners themselves may not get along. The closer the relationship becomes, the more strained it gets. A parent-child illusionary relationship may be turbulent at home, but will be more natural, relaxed, and mutually beneficial when on vacation together.

Illusionary relations range from apparent compatibility, offset by the occasional small, short argument to mutual understanding and tolerance of the other's quirks to complete aversion and disregard for the other's lifestyle. The relationship usually progresses smoothly, but it depends on how close the partners are, what terms the relationship started on, and which of the two leads the relationship (usually the older, more experienced partner.) A lack of understanding of the other's lifestyle seems to be the biggest cause for upheaval. According to Filatova, the one in charge is important - if it is the more positive of the two, or the one more that is more of a natural psychologist, then the relation will run smoothly. Out of the four illusionary cases Filatova offers, two have the same types, but the one in charge is reversed. In the more successful relationships, the only dichotomy shared by the three types in charge is static. IEEs, which she says are life-loving optimists, are negativists.

There you have it, the IEEs are negativists.

MBTI also doesn't talk about function roles, instead it calls it "how it manifests", socionics assigns a role to it as the function is assigned to the type.

Short info on Socionics, Socionics uses all 8 functions and clearly defines the roles of each function. It also fixes the J/P for introverts, instead of using the first extraverted function to determine if it is J/P like in MBTI, it assigns it correctly (matter of opinion) by using the first function.

Then it also goes ahead and writes the functions correctly, so if INTJ (MBTI) is Ni Te Fi Se, it writes it Ni Te x x Se Fi x x. Now one can clearly see what the shadow is. Instead of MBTI where the it unconscience is written as Fi Se. The shadow of the INTJ (MBTI) or (ILI-INTp) is the ESFP. Socionics also writes the functions 1st 2nd 3rd 4th function as the conscience, but ordered from strong to weak, functions 5th 6th 7th 8th is the unconscience, this time however, ordered from weak to strong.

Duality in socionics means, each type's shadow is their dual partner.

Now what I find ironic about the whole MBTI thing is, that Isabel Myers (INFP) married a man named Chief, an ISTJ and a good man.

This means, in socionics it translates to EII-INFj (yes the J/P because of the dominant function actually being rational judging function) and the ISTp (again the dominant function is actually an irrational perceiving function). Turns out to be relations of Activity, one of the top 4 recommended relationships!

Activation, or activity, is an intertype relation between two people that belong to opposite poles of all basic dichotomies except for extraversion and introversion (e.g. SLI, which is introverted, sensing, logical, and irrational, and EII, which is introverted, intuitive, ethical, and rational.) Activation partners belong to the same quadra and thus find it comfortable to let down their guard around each other, making this relationship very easy to start.

Activation is a very common relationship for friendship. Activation is similar to duality in that each person provides those kinds of information that the other most expects, however, the emphasis is always somewhat different than subconsciously expected. Partners are able to provide each other with an abundance of useful information and assistance, but lead separate lives and make decisions based on criteria that don't seem too important to the other.

Activation partners who become close and discuss their strivings and personal worldviews often are struck by how radically different they are, despite the relative ease and benefit of communication. As opposed to duals, who tend to strive for the same things but from differing, though compatible angles, activation partners' approaches to achieving their goals tend to be fundamentally incompatible, due largely to the difference in rationality and irrationality. This means that while activation partners can talk and share their common hobbies with ease, they tend to view each other as separate entities with separate lifestyles and plans.

Then there is Lenore Thomson who's parents are still together is in a dual relationship. The irony never ends.
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
Because INFP wont put up with INTJ shit :doh: ENFP will

INTJs cough up shit?? I never noticed it before. I just assumed the brown was the color of their shirt. Maybe that's why I'm not bothered by it :D
 

baccheion

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
776
The attraction between INTJs and ENFPs is mainly sexual. That is, it's a commonly occurring pairing, but it doesn't usually work out. That said (as you can see below), it seems only ENFP + INFP pairings work out better.

Polls results from an ENFP Facebook group:

ENFPs: what types have you been in relationships with? How did the relationships come about? How did they go? How did they end? Also, please state your gender.
Code:
Type     Good      Bad         
----     ----     ----

ENFJ        7        0       100.00%
ISTP        3        0       100.00%

INFP       11        4        73.33%
ESTJ        3        2        60.00%
INTP        9        6        60.00%
INTJ       12        9        57.14%
ENFP       12       10        54.55%
INFJ        7        6        53.85%
ENTP        1        1        50.00%
ESTP        3        3        50.00%

ESFJ        4        7        36.36%
ISFP        1        2        33.33%
ISFJ        2        5        28.57%

ISTJ        2       10        16.67%
ESFP        0        1         0.00%
ENTJ        0        5         0.00%


ENFP women: which types are you most SEXUALLY (not romantically or platonically, necessarily) attracted to? Why?
Code:
INTJ     48

ENFP     32

INFJ     19
ENTJ     13
INTP     12
INFP     12

ENTP      9
ISTJ      9
ENFJ      7
ISTP      6
ESTP      5
ESFP      3
ESTJ      2
ISFP      2
ESFJ      0
ISFJ      0

ENFPs: which xNxx types would you PREFER to become romantically involved with? Why?
ENFPs: which xNxx types would you rather NOT become romantically involved with? Why?
Code:
Type     Yes      No      Score
----   -----   -----      -----

INFJ       7       0     2.8284
INFP       5       0     2.4495

ENFP      13       3     1.8708
ENFJ       5       1     1.7321

INTP       6       2     1.5275
INTJ       6       8     0.8819
ENTP       2       3     0.8660
ENTJ       2      11     0.5000

*Score: sqrt((yes + 1) / (no + 1))
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
The attraction between INTJs and ENFPs is mainly sexual. That is, it's a commonly occurring pairing, but it doesn't usually work out. That said (as you can see below), it seems only ENFP + INFP pairings work out better.

Polls results from an ENFP Facebook group:

ENFPs: what types have you been in relationships with? How did the relationships come about? How did they go? How did they end? Also, please state your gender.
Code:
Type     Good      Bad         
----     ----     ----

ENFJ        7        0       100.00%
ISTP        3        0       100.00%

INFP       11        4        73.33%
ESTJ        3        2        60.00%
INTP        9        6        60.00%
INTJ       12        9        57.14%
ENFP       12       10        54.55%
INFJ        7        6        53.85%
ENTP        1        1        50.00%
ESTP        3        3        50.00%

ESFJ        4        7        36.36%
ISFP        1        2        33.33%
ISFJ        2        5        28.57%

ISTJ        2       10        16.67%
ESFP        0        1         0.00%
ENTJ        0        5         0.00%


ENFP women: which types are you most SEXUALLY (not romantically or platonically, necessarily) attracted to? Why?
Code:
INTJ     48

ENFP     32

INFJ     19
ENTJ     13
INTP     12
INFP     12

ENTP      9
ISTJ      9
ENFJ      7
ISTP      6
ESTP      5
ESFP      3
ESTJ      2
ISFP      2
ESFJ      0
ISFJ      0

ENFPs: which xNxx types would you PREFER to become romantically involved with? Why?
ENFPs: which xNxx types would you rather NOT become romantically involved with? Why?
Code:
Type     Yes      No      Score
----   -----   -----      -----

INFJ       7       0     2.8284
INFP       5       0     2.4495

ENFP      13       3     1.8708
ENFJ       5       1     1.7321

INTP       6       2     1.5275
INTJ       6       8     0.8819
ENTP       2       3     0.8660
ENTJ       2      11     0.5000

*Score: sqrt((yes + 1) / (no + 1))



I laughed at "mainly sexual".

How many of those ENFPs do you supposed are actually SFJs?


*edit: thought I was going to get an immediate response to this post and did not. I get really nervous thinking of people viewing these kinds of stats as relatively/scientifically accurate. Things like astrology = total crap...but this...this is science ha. No, here we are putting our trust in Facebook members to type themselves accurately as well as their past partners. So this isn't saying much of anything in my opinion. Also there's a huge problem with image/identity types and using MBTI...and influence. An ENFP correctly typed or otherwise knows the right answer is INTJ. You reinforce your ENFPness with that answer.
 

Litsnob

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
301
That's something you work with, though. It's not that hard - they just go out, while you do your thing at home, and some nights you spend together. Or you find a social activity that is refreshing for you while engaging for them (for instance, we play boardgames in a group - he gets to do strategic shit and I get to socialise :smile:). And then there's the fact that being an extrovert is a sliding scale. I'm only 60 percent, but i met an ENFP with 100 percent last week....BIG difference :D

Yeah, that sliding scale of I/E would make a big difference. My parents are an I/E pairing and it works fine for them. I would hate to be paired up with an E who was always trying to get me to go out or complaining that I didn't do it enough. Also, I like my partner to stay home even if we do different things. I like that parallel play of toddlers. LOL
 

baccheion

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
776
I laughed at "mainly sexual".

How many of those ENFPs do you supposed are actually SFJs?


*edit: thought I was going to get an immediate response to this post and did not. I get really nervous thinking of people viewing these kinds of stats as relatively/scientifically accurate. Things like astrology = total crap...but this...this is science ha. No, here we are putting our trust in Facebook members to type themselves accurately as well as their past partners. So this isn't saying much of anything in my opinion. Also there's a huge problem with image/identity types and using MBTI...and influence. An ENFP correctly typed or otherwise knows the right answer is INTJ. You reinforce your ENFPness with that answer.

There's a lot wrong with what's presented (mainly the number of people responding), but it seems accurate (especially the last 2).
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
There's a lot wrong with what's presented (mainly the number of people responding), but it seems accurate (especially the last 2).


I'm not sure I understand what the final numbers are saying...just as part of my own personal observations... While an individual ENFP may have discovered a few types that they may find themselves more likely to be drawn to... and will answer in the positive accordingly...it's difficult for me to see them limiting the possibilities and answering in the negative. I would expect none of the hard "No" boxes to be checked...even with a type they had had a problematic relationship with previously. But again this is merely what I would expect to see and subsequently should be clear in saying that Im not commenting either way on what you, yourself, would personally expect to see. What you say may in fact be accurate...idk. These numbers won't support it though.

As for the numbers in figure 2 though...what I was trying to get at is that is an ENFP "right answer" for that question...INTJ is. I'm not explaining this very well...but it took me a very long time to grasp that for many people MBTI is a tool people use to (unknowingly) construct a "desirable" image for themselves and there are several reasons really why the ENFP type is more subject to these individuals and this phenomenon at this point in time. This is the kind of question that will uphold/support the image for many of these folks. Again, this is a question that has a right answer.


*edit: Although I just noticed a wrong answer baccheion haha. 32 "ENFP" females said ENFP males were the type they were most sexually (actually I think it was in all caps like SEXUALLY) attracted to? making it the 2nd most popular answer? I think male ENFPs are stunning and they take-my-breath-away...and I can't wait to enjoy ENFP heaven with them forever and ever... but well...wow. When I consider sexual attraction I guess contrast and tension isn't for all ENFPs idk.
 

baccheion

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
776
I'm not sure I understand what the final numbers are saying...just as part of my own personal observations... While an individual ENFP may have discovered a few types that they may find themselves more likely to be drawn to... and will answer in the positive accordingly...it's difficult for me to see them limiting the possibilities and answering in the negative. I would expect none of the hard "No" boxes to be checked...even with a type they had had a problematic relationship with previously. But again this is merely what I would expect to see and subsequently should be clear in saying that Im not commenting either way on what you, yourself, would personally expect to see. What you say may in fact be accurate...idk. These numbers won't support it though.

As for the numbers in figure 2 though...what I was trying to get at is that is an ENFP "right answer" for that question...INTJ is. I'm not explaining this very well...but it took me a very long time to grasp that for many people MBTI is a tool people use to (unknowingly) construct a "desirable" image for themselves and there are several reasons really why the ENFP type is more subject to these individuals and this phenomenon at this point in time. This is the kind of question that will uphold/support the image for many of these folks. Again, this is a question that has a right answer.


*edit: Although I just noticed a wrong answer baccheion haha. 32 "ENFP" females said ENFP males were the type they were most sexually (actually I think it was in all caps like SEXUALLY) attracted to? making it the 2nd most popular answer? I think male ENFPs are stunning and they take-my-breath-away...and I can't wait to enjoy ENFP heaven with them forever and ever... but well...wow. When I consider sexual attraction I guess contrast and tension isn't for all ENFPs idk.

It was about looking for trends not limiting choices.

ENFPs seem attracted to the intelligence of INTJs and the manner in which they carry themselves. I suppose it makes them seem superior and "out of reach." That is, ENFPs are generally attracted to intelligence, but the Jness of the INTJ turns that general attraction into a sexual one.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
It was about looking for trends not limiting choices.

ENFPs seem attracted to the intelligence of INTJs and the manner in which they carry themselves. I suppose it makes them seem superior and "out of reach." That is, ENFPs are generally attracted to intelligence, but the Jness of the INTJ turns that general attraction into a sexual one.


Thank you for the response.


You are right that intelligence is attractive to ENFPs although I don't see INTJs as having a monopoly on this trait by any means. And as someone that has had positive experiences/relationships with this type I'll be honest and say that the phrases "the manner in which they carry themselves" and "the Jness of the INTJ turns that general attraction into a sexual one"...were funny to me and so I appreciate that - thank you.

The word "superior" instantly causes me to bristle as does "out of reach" to a lesser degree... especially when considering what it is I do love about the INTJ type. It's weird living your life as a type that many seem drawn to but no one seems to understand. People are always laughing... but to hear a laugh hit at the right time or to receive a response that demonstrates the person genuinely understands what you just said... you're like "oh what? you got that? you're diggin this for what it actually is are you?" That's not "out of reach" that's total accessibility and experiencing what it is like to be truly known. "out to lunch"<- because they take forever to figure shit out is not the same as "out of reach". Actually believing you are superior is a total turn off. Joking around as if you are superior is hilarious.

I can't remember what the topic of this thread is about anymore though ha. I think INTJs would enjoy meaningful relationships with a bunch of different types though
 

baccheion

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
776
Thank you for the response.


You are right that intelligence is attractive to ENFPs although I don't see INTJs as having a monopoly on this trait by any means. And as someone that has had positive experiences/relationships with this type I'll be honest and say that the phrases "the manner in which they carry themselves" and "the Jness of the INTJ turns that general attraction into a sexual one"...were funny to me and so I appreciate that - thank you.

The word "superior" instantly causes me to bristle as does "out of reach" to a lesser degree... especially when considering what it is I do love about the INTJ type. It's weird living your life as a type that many seem drawn to but no one seems to understand. People are always laughing... but to hear a laugh hit at the right time or to receive a response that demonstrates the person genuinely understands what you just said... you're like "oh what? you got that? you're diggin this for what it actually is are you?" That's not "out of reach" that's total accessibility and experiencing what it is like to be truly known. "out to lunch"<- because they take forever to figure shit out is not the same as "out of reach". Actually believing you are superior is a total turn off. Joking around as if you are superior is hilarious.

I can't remember what the topic of this thread is about anymore though ha. I think INTJs would enjoy meaningful relationships with a bunch of different types though
Yes, attractiveness due to intelligence isn't limited to INTJs, hence why I said their Jness turns general attraction into sexual attraction.

No that doesn't mean out of reach, but ENFPs can usually experience such connection with any xNxx type. In the case of INTJs, ENFPs can easily feel inferior to them, which can result in feelings of worthlessness, or an intensified attraction (like being attracted to the most popular person in the group, then having it reciprocated).
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
Yes, attractiveness due to intelligence isn't limited to INTJs, hence why I said their Jness turns general attraction into sexual attraction.

No that doesn't mean out of reach, but ENFPs can usually experience such connection with any xNxx type. In the case of INTJs, ENFPs can easily feel inferior to them, which can result in feelings of worthlessness, or an intensified attraction (like being attracted to the most popular person in the group, then having it reciprocated).


So, you are using the analogy of being attracted to the most popular person in the group to describe how the ENFP feels about the INTJ? Ok.

Look, we currently have a lot of ENFP experts on the site these days...none of which appear to actually be ENFP...but whatever. I know now not to hop the crazy train.

My experience with this type...and from other ENFPs I've discussed this with on this site for quite a few years now...does not reflect what you are saying. Fin.
 

baccheion

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
776
So, you are using the analogy of being attracted to the most popular person in the group to describe how the ENFP feels about the INTJ? Ok.

Look, we currently have a lot of ENFP experts on the site these days...none of which appear to actually be ENFP...but whatever. I know now not to hop the crazy train.

My experience with this type...and from other ENFPs I've discussed this with on this site for quite a few years now...does not reflect what you are saying. Fin.

I'm using that to illustrate my point. I'm referring to the feeling commonly experienced when such a thing happens, not them going after INTJs because they are the popular ones.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I laughed at "mainly sexual".

How many of those ENFPs do you supposed are actually SFJs?


*edit: thought I was going to get an immediate response to this post and did not. I get really nervous thinking of people viewing these kinds of stats as relatively/scientifically accurate. Things like astrology = total crap...but this...this is science ha. No, here we are putting our trust in Facebook members to type themselves accurately as well as their past partners. So this isn't saying much of anything in my opinion. Also there's a huge problem with image/identity types and using MBTI...and influence. An ENFP correctly typed or otherwise knows the right answer is INTJ. You reinforce your ENFPness with that answer.

That made me laugh also, now if it said for mental masturbation in the scientific realm...i would agree.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yes, attractiveness due to intelligence isn't limited to INTJs, hence why I said their Jness turns general attraction into sexual attraction.

No that doesn't mean out of reach, but ENFPs can usually experience such connection with any xNxx type. In the case of INTJs, ENFPs can easily feel inferior to them, which can result in feelings of worthlessness, or an intensified attraction (like being attracted to the most popular person in the group, then having it reciprocated).

The inferiority is short lived because it doesnt span that far into functional. To much scope creep on INTJ that fauses them to lose functional.
 

Elegiac

Wandering & Wondering
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
87
MBTI Type
INFP
Well, all I'm going to say is, apparently I'm in that minority of introverts, that wants to be with an introvert. :dry:
 

Litsnob

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
301
Well, all I'm going to say is, apparently I'm in that minority of introverts, that wants to be with an introvert. :dry:

I am too, Queen Parrot. The thought of being partnered with an extrovert horrifies me and even in friendships I prefer introverts. I never have bought into the opposites attract idea even before I knew anything about MBTI or any other types.
 

Alassea

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
204
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I'd feel that Te in the dom/aux position would just piss off the INFP being the idealists that they are. The whole means to an end approach is so antithesis to their lifestyle and beliefs.

It'd be pretty violent the way I see it and some (not all) INFP's ime have such terrible logic that you cannot hold an intellectual conversation which so many INTJ's expect from their intimates.

That's as far as I'll say.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg
 
Top