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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Are you autistic?
    Yes. Asperger's syndrome.

  2. #32
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    We need that because we're mammals. Mammal offspring die without their female parent.
    Even when they are properly fed and otherwise cared for lack of touch, etc. has a very negative effect. I guess I'm aware of this because I'm a mother?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You don't think the negative health effects on infants of human and other primate species when they are denied normal maternal touch and nurturing indicates any kind of innate need for social interaction?
    Yes, based on experiments done even 40+ years ago, it's pretty clear that infants need maternal nurturing and touch in order to develop properly -- not just to learn how to interact, but to fully develop and thrive.

    There's also the language window -- missing interaction with human beings during the 2-4 year slot impacts not only communication ability later in life (if not derailing it completely) but also limits the ability to think in complex coherent terms.

    [We can all participate on this forum today only because of the human beings we learned language from as children.]

    Object Relations theory also tracks how children develop their sense of self and autonomy based on the core relationships in their lives (parental figures).

    Like it or not, every human being is dependent at least at an early age on other human beings, if we wish to reach our full potential. Only later can we become autonomous... but the relationships have already been established.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    My mother told me that when I was a baby, I never liked being held or touched.
    My oldest daughter, also an INTJ, did not, and still does not, like being touched. Nursing her hurt because she wanted to be as far away from me as she physically could and still eat. Very bad positioning. Ouch!

    I don't believe she is on the spectrum, though it's possible. Two of my children are. Neither of them showed any aversion to touch, though. It kind of threw me off.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Even when they are properly fed and otherwise cared for lack of touch, etc. has a very negative effect. I guess I'm aware of this because I'm a mother?
    He could be right, it might be addictive. Some of us may substitute our lack of physical human interaction with online interaction and pets, because we're addicted to human interaction. Many can do fair alone, but they are so addicted that they want human companionship.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, based on experiments done even 40+ years ago, it's pretty clear that infants need maternal nurturing and touch in order to develop properly -- not just to learn how to interact, but to fully develop and thrive.

    There's also the language window -- missing interaction with human beings during the 2-4 year slot impacts not only communication ability later in life (if not derailing it completely) but also limits the ability to think in complex coherent terms.

    [We can all participate on this forum today only because of the human beings we learned language from as children.]

    Object Relations theory also tracks how children develop their sense of self and autonomy based on the core relationships in their lives (parental figures).

    Like it or not, every human being is dependent at least at an early age on other human beings, if we wish to reach our full potential. Only later can we become autonomous... but the relationships have already been established.
    Well, a certain dependency to learn is essential to survival, yes, but I don't see personal relationships as being a requirement. We could also increase our survival by using others -- a business partner, sorta -- but Feeling types seem to find this to be cruel. However, I don't think a deep emotional connection is essential. I don't really think emotions are something that should be valued.

  7. #37
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    I've never been a cuddler. My mother and sister find this funny and are always hugging on me against my will. I make broad exceptions for people I feel genuine affection for--which surprises a lot of people when I do. Freely given with respect is a big deal with me.

    I recall the birth process and had nightmares and waking terrors about it for years. I was an induced birth and there've been some studies on effects of induced birth on kids.

    I'm not on the Aspie/Autism spectrum, altho my sister once decided the whole family was. (My sister has some other peculiar ideas.)
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    He could be right, it might be addictive. Some of us may substitute our lack of physical human interaction with online interaction and pets, because we're addicted to human interaction. Many can do fair alone, but they are so addicted that they want human companionship.
    I think that material possessions could also increase survival rate. People do seem to have a connection with material things in the same way they do with people.

    Also, having a lot of money provides a sense of psychological security, which could ease stress, thereby also increasing one's own life span.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    I've never been a cuddler. My mother and sister find this funny and are always hugging on me against my will. I make broad exceptions for people I feel genuine affection for--which surprises a lot of people when I do. Freely given with respect is a big deal with me.

    I recall the birth process and had nightmares and waking terrors about it for years. I was an induced birth and there's been some studies on effects of induced birth on kids.

    I'm not on the Aspie/Autism spectrum, altho my sister once decided the whole family was. (My sister has some other peculiar ideas.)
    Maybe that's because your sister is from Uranus! :P

  10. #40
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    I've never been a cuddler. My mother and sister find this funny and are always hugging on me against my will. I make broad exceptions for people I feel genuine affection for--which surprises a lot of people when I do. Freely given with respect is a big deal with me.

    I recall the birth process and had nightmares and waking terrors about it for years. I was an induced birth and there's been some studies on effects of induced birth on kids.

    I'm not on the Aspie/Autism spectrum, altho my sister once decided the whole family was. (My sister has some other peculiar ideas.)
    I don't really like being touched other than by my partner and my children up to a certain age. I don't know how I was when I was little. No one ever said anything about it.

    I am very respectful of my daughter's dislike of being touched. I don't see it as being different than any other preference. I wouldn't like it if someone tried to pour Dr. Pepper down my throat, why should I touch somebody that doesn't want to be touched?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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