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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    INTJ's refuse to go to therapy, because they're too busy trying to Take! Over! The! World!



    But did this BOTHER you? Your posts really make it sound as if you're not bothered by anything at all. And most INTJ's seem to just tell the world to flip off if they don't like it.

    INxPs would be bothered, though.
    The main thing that bothered me was having to get special ed treatment in between Kindergarten and 12th grade because of my "abnormal" behavior. I had a fantasy-oriented childhood -- I usually played my own games by myself.

    School years for me consisted of people pretending to like me so I could make them laugh and shit. My ex-stepsister, probably an ESFJ, and her clan of preppy friends made me aware of this. After this, everyone always seemed to keep an eye on every behavioral slip-up I made.

    Basically, her friends would tell her the rumors they heard about me, then she told my parents (or rather father and ex-stepmother), and I was punished quite often. This led to visits from school therapists which I felt was invading. I eventually tried to get away from everyone so that I can have privacy, so I normally stayed home and watched movies and played video games.

    Every attempt I made to fit in with others using my own methods got me into trouble, though it was mostly an attention-seeking device. I liked getting shocking reactions out of people and "pressing buttons," but in terms of personal interactions, I never knew whether or not people were being sincere or just being nice to me so I could make them laugh.

    I think it was during this stage where I started realizing my unique interests -- something to make me feel good about myself. At an early age, I had rather scholarly interests, including deep knowledge in movies, which was an interest of mine since I was like 4. I eventually started realizing that I was different from the other kids and I started feeling individualistic.

    When I came across others with my interests, though, I never wanted to be around them because they made me feel jealous. Hence, I just learned stay away from other people.

    Every time I ever went out in public, I felt like I was being watched and a little embarrassed for being out in public. Even now that I'm out of school, I still have this feeling when I go out in public. Sometimes it happens in my own home, but it's not as bad.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    ...Every attempt I made to fit in with others using my own methods got me into trouble, though it was mostly an attention-seeking device. I liked getting shocking reactions out of people and "pressing buttons," but in terms of personal interactions, I never knew whether or not people were being sincere or just being nice to me so I could make them laugh.
    You know, that would be a very sucky place to be all the time. It would drive me crazy.

    I think it was during this stage where I started realizing my unique interests -- something to make me feel good about myself. At an early age, I had rather scholarly interests, including deep knowledge in movies, which was an interest of mine since I was like 4. I eventually started realizing that I was different from the other kids and I started feeling individualistic.
    What sort of movies do you like, and what sort of knowledge do you like to collect in regards to movies? Four is a very young age to gain a real interest in movies (beyond what most kids do at that age, which is just stare at the screen and have their eyes glaze over... )

    When I came across others with my interests, though, I never wanted to be around them because they made me feel jealous. Hence, I just learned stay away from other people.
    Jealous because they seemed to be accepted despite the similar interests to you, or jealous because you were afraid they knew more, or what sort of thing? Just asking so that I understand what you are saying.

    In any case, that does sound like a very sucky feeling to carry around all the time.

    Just for me to say it, you don't have to worry about performing on these boards. Nor do you have to worry about punching people's buttons to get a reaction to be noticed, nor do you have to be funny or eccentric to have people interested in what you have to say.

    As long as people know you're trying your best to contribute as part of the group, and as long as what you say can be supported so that others can follow what you're trying to say and we can all communicate about it, well, that's all you need.

    Just saying it. Old habits do die hard, and it sounds like you have had to put up with a lot of alienation and disappointment from other people... but none of that has to apply here. Okay? This is a New World for you, and everyone else.

    Every time I ever went out in public, I felt like I was being watched and a little embarrassed for being out in public. Even now that I'm out of school, I still have this feeling when I go out in public. Sometimes it happens in my own home, but it's not as bad.
    Uggh. I remember feeling something similar. For me, it was as if all eyes were on me, and every little verbal slip I made, every little factual mistake, every little social blunder on my part -- people were all watching me and talking about me behind my back, or at least THINKING poorly of me. It was a horrible horrible place to live, emotionally. It was so much easier to just be by myself and not have to worry about performing for everyone.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You know, that would be a very sucky place to be all the time. It would drive me crazy.



    What sort of movies do you like, and what sort of knowledge do you like to collect in regards to movies? Four is a very young age to gain a real interest in movies (beyond what most kids do at that age, which is just stare at the screen and have their eyes glaze over... )



    Jealous because they seemed to be accepted despite the similar interests to you, or jealous because you were afraid they knew more, or what sort of thing? Just asking so that I understand what you are saying.

    In any case, that does sound like a very sucky feeling to carry around all the time.

    Just for me to say it, you don't have to worry about performing on these boards. Nor do you have to worry about punching people's buttons to get a reaction to be noticed, nor do you have to be funny or eccentric to have people interested in what you have to say.

    As long as people know you're trying your best to contribute as part of the group, and as long as what you say can be supported so that others can follow what you're trying to say and we can all communicate about it, well, that's all you need.

    Just saying it. Old habits do die hard, and it sounds like you have had to put up with a lot of alienation and disappointment from other people... but none of that has to apply here. Okay? This is a New World for you, and everyone else.



    Uggh. I remember feeling something similar. For me, it was as if all eyes were on me, and every little verbal slip I made, every little factual mistake, every little social blunder on my part -- people were all watching me and talking about me behind my back, or at least THINKING poorly of me. It was a horrible horrible place to live, emotionally. It was so much easier to just be by myself and not have to worry about performing for everyone.
    Don't know if it was exactly the age of 4, but I used to watch a lot of Disney cartoons. True to my Aspie nature, I was obsessed, for some reason, with movies that said "The End" after they were over. I don't know why, though. And then it sorta evolved from there.

    Eventually, I started making up movies in my mind. I used to go to a lot of movies with my grandmother, mostly PG-rated comedies, which were common back then. I think when I went to see Honey, Blew Up the Kid in the theater in 1992, I started getting mildly curious about special effects in the movies. Then a year later, I got curious about Jurassic Park. But for years more, I mostly indulged in fantasy.

    Another thing I commonly enjoyed is make my own expansion maps of the underworld levels of the original Zelda game for Nintendo, which I enthusiastically played when I was young. I also played the Sonic the Hedgehog games a lot, and imagined my own levels based on that. I distinctly remember acting out these things on the school playground by myself -- I remember someone asking me why I played by myself all the time.

    With the mind movies I made, I also drew pictures with markers of some characters and some of the gadgets I made up. Of course, they were childlike.

    My interest in movie special effects really kicked into gear when I was 11 and went to see Twister and Independence Day in the theater. And I also read Industrial Light & Magic: The Art of Special Effects.

    In the 7th grade, when I was 12 or 13, I made a series of experimental claymation movies with my dad's camcorder (don't know what I did with it), which I showed to the class in school. Around this time, I also developed an obsessive interest in roller coasters and I did research on them, as well. I also started getting interested in serial killers after I watched Silence of the Lambs on TV one time, but for the most part, because of my age, I had to keep that one under wraps so I wouldn't get in trouble.

    But at a young age, I guess all the memories I collected from all the movies I saw and video games I played were all combined to form new ideas. I never know where I get some of my movie ideas. But movies are my oldest passion. I took a Film Studies class in high school, where the students had to make a movie, but while I wrote the script and had the whole thing planned out in my mind, the film itself never got made because (1) I was afraid of not being good enough, (2) I panicked at the prospect of working with other people, and (3) I didn't have the tools at my disposal to do what I wanted to do.

    I don't really know exactly why I got jealous when others shared my interests -- it may be a combination of their acceptance in society and the possibility of them knowing more. The fact that I never really had actual friends growing up made me feel unique and mentally superior. And I feel that if I do interact with others, I'd be stepping down a level and being less independent. And when people think I'm weird, it basically encourages me more, because weirdness is often a sign of originality. So in a way I do worry about how others perceive me and I like to know. Although I would feel awkward by asking if I seemed like an INTJ to other people.

    So yeah, I'm kinda insecure, but rather than fitting into the group, I want to make sure that I'm standing out from the crowd.

  4. #14
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    What kind of reactions were you trying to get out of people, Uberfuhrer?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #15
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    It wasn't really a particular reaction it was more of challenging norms. But if people got upset over the things I said, I would ultimately feel satisfied because I can then consider those people to be "sheep." And from my perspective, those are people who don't like to think and are therefore shallow.

  6. #16
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    ESTJ and ENTJ: may view their need for counseling as a "defeat," as personal failure to solve their own life problems. They may project their own sense of incompetence onto the therapist, which can emerge as challenging, confrontational approach to the counseling/therapy enterprise.
    This goes for some INTJs too, at least the first part and at least when it comes to making the decision of getting counseling.

    I'd tell you about the second part if I knew any INTJs to whom the first part applied who actually went on to get counseling.

  7. #17
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It wasn't really a particular reaction it was more of challenging norms. But if people got upset over the things I said, I would ultimately feel satisfied because I can then consider those people to be "sheep." And from my perspective, those are people who don't like to think and are therefore shallow.
    So...you're admitting you were trolling....?
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    So...you're admitting you were trolling....?
    I never got the vibe that I was offending. I was just looking at things from a different perspective -- trying to understand things intellectually.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    This goes for some INTJs too, at least the first part and at least when it comes to making the decision of getting counseling.

    I'd tell you about the second part if I knew any INTJs to whom the first part applied who actually went on to get counseling.
    I didn't choose to go meet with them, it was more expected or forced (in school). I didn't project anything on them, but I probed them at least as much as they probed me, otherwise they weren't getting anything.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  10. #20
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It wasn't really a particular reaction it was more of challenging norms. But if people got upset over the things I said, I would ultimately feel satisfied because I can then consider those people to be "sheep." And from my perspective, those are people who don't like to think and are therefore shallow.
    Is that something you go out of your way looking for or is it just something you confront when you stumble over it in the course of your day?

    In your experience are the problems that result from upsetting people an acceptable price to pay for feeling smarter than others?

    If people can present a reasonable argument for a particular norm, are you then willing to play along, even if you don't personally find value in the norm?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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