• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Si] Si and the Fundamental Attribution Error

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
If there's a function more likely than others to engage in a certain pathology known as the Fundamental Attribution error, that type would have to be Introverted Sensing.

Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In social psychology, the fundamental attribution error, also known as the correspondence bias or attribution effect, is the tendency for people to place an undue emphasis on internal characteristics of the agent (character or intention), rather than external factors, in explaining another person's behavior in a given situation. This contrasts with interpreting one's own behavior, where situational factors are more easily recognized and can be taken into account."

For example, the Si dominant will claim that his or her problems had their origin in some childhood trauma (an external factor); whereas your problems, whatever they are, are your fault, and there is no excuse for it.

Naturally the Si dominant, being past experience oriented, will symbolize an internal source such as a memory. But then they don't have access to your childhood memories, so all they can do is blame you while, for themselves, there is no personal responsibility taken for any character flaw. Usually this blaming takes the form of projection; their character flaws become your character flaws, or the fear of having a perceived flaw. And your very existence is translated into a symbol of whatever they fear or hate within themselves.

This contrasts greatly with the Si's desire and self-confident capacity to take on new responsibilities in the world around them. But it helps them obscure the fact that there is a blind spot in their self-awareness involving how to extirpate whatever character flaw still needs to be worked out. In this way, the Si dominant puts on a great show of taking on challenges, responsibilities, and the like in the external world, but never gets down to working on any internal challenges, because symbols from the past (or present) serve as an excuse not to work on oneself. They are placed 'high up on a pedestal' so that the Si dominant can't see beyond the symbols of the past and into the present moment without interpreting the present in terms of the past, as a Ti dominant judges everything in terms of how well it coheres with a strict yet static system of logic. As the past can't be changed, the symbols are static and inert, unchangeable and inflexible.

Labeling individuals or groups of people is a very common social tactic with this type. Just as the Si dominant can't grow in character because of the static nature of the symbols, they don't let other people grow beyond the labels they have been "blessed" with. If aggressive, this type will force the external world to conform to the static and immutable internal nature. If not, then there will be passive-aggressive attempts, depending on how much the Si dominant fears the judgments of others. If the Si function falls in the tertiary position, then attempts to gain conformity to the static rules will be through indirect methods such as manipulation.
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
For example, the Si dominant will claim that his or her problems had their origin in some childhood trauma (an external factor); whereas your problems, whatever they are, are your fault, and there is no excuse for it.

Really? All problems? Even if they've been abused? Was that trauma their fault too?

FTR, I don't recall ever blaming any of my problems on childhood trauma.

Naturally the Si dominant, being past experience oriented, will symbolize an internal source such as a memory. But then they don't have access to your childhood memories, so all they can do is blame you while, for themselves, there is no personal responsibility taken for any character flaw. Usually this blaming takes the form of projection; their character flaws become your character flaws, or the fear of having a perceived flaw. And your very existence is translated into a symbol of whatever they fear or hate within themselves.

This has nothing to do with Si as a function.

This contrasts greatly with the Si's desire and self-confident capacity to take on new responsibilities in the world around them. But it helps them obscure the fact that there is a blind spot in their self-awareness involving how to extirpate whatever character flaw still needs to be worked out. In this way, the Si dominant puts on a great show of taking on challenges, responsibilities, and the like in the external world, but never gets down to working on any internal challenges, because symbols from the past (or present) serve as an excuse not to work on oneself. They are placed 'high up on a pedestal' so that the Si dominant can't see beyond the symbols of the past and into the present moment without interpreting the present in terms of the past, as a Ti dominant judges everything in terms of how well it coheres with a strict yet static system of logic. As the past can't be changed, the symbols are static and inert, unchangeable and inflexible.

This is absolute horse shit. I don't put on any image of responsibility to avoid working on self-awareness and working on my internal flaws. I don't make any excuses not to try and better myself. This has nothing to do with Si. You really don't seem to understand Si at all. We already know you have problems with Si and Fe types that you're projecting onto all SiFe types because of issues you had with one in the past. Pretty hypocritical to me, as you're claiming this is something Si does and not Ti, yet you're a Ti type.

Labeling individuals or groups of people is a very common social tactic with this type. Just as the Si dominant can't grow in character because of the static nature of the symbols, they don't let other people grow beyond the labels they have been "blessed" with. If aggressive, this type will force the external world to conform to the static and immutable internal nature. If not, then there will be passive-aggressive attempts, depending on how much the Si dominant fears the judgments of others. If the Si function falls in the tertiary position, then attempts to gain conformity to the static rules will be through indirect methods such as manipulation.

Yes, Si likes when its archetypes are static. This doesn't mean they're all close-minded and unable to change or better themselves. This is such absolutely over-stereotyped bullshit and I'd appreciate it if you stop smearing crap like this about every function all over the forum. It's all the same, every time. You blow up problems you've had with individuals onto entire functions or types that you have a personal problem with and you seem to have a very poor misunderstanding of most of the functions, watering them down to nothing more than petty internet profile stereotypes, most of which are very, very wrong. Si is not labeling and stereotyping with the inability to change. Fe is not fakeness and backstabbing. Se is not brainless, shallow, or fleeing from reality.

You can respond to this if it makes you feel better, but I'm not going to waste any more time responding to this thread after this post, even if you quote me. I just wanted to make sure someone said this. God forbid forum lurkers see these shitty threads and think all of these stereotyped bs is true typology.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Then you're not an ISFJ.

And from your previous thread on the Si function, what does this mean?
Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
"Si, being an introverted function, wants things to be pure."
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Also, you wrote: "If you are going to comment in this space, be respectful. I can and will have any harmful or rude posts or comments removed."

That should go for all threads in this forum. Thus you might want to reconsider calling my ideas "horseshit" and other rude comments you made.

You are not immune from the rules so be respectful and not hypocritical.
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I thought about FAE, although it would appear to be that it isn't within one cognitive function. For example, take Te and Fe. They could equally argue that they're using FAE to enforce their decision. Te for using qualities that could be internal suitable for the job, or Fe for assuming that a certain quality about a person needs to be brought out or suppressed when it could or couldn't exist.

Ni could be the largest one in fact, taking the archetypal image of a person in their head, their own internal world forms images of what may appear in their own head.

Possibilities aside, no evidence on your part, my jurisdiction:

:notype:
 

magpie

Permabanned
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
3,428
Enneagram
614
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Thus you might want to reconsider calling my ideas "horseshit" and other rude comments you made.

You are not immune from the rules so be respectful and not hypocritical.

Boo frickety hoo.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
432
Enneagram
9w1
Okay I'll just dismiss all of this in favor of my own question for Si.... or I guess any type that may exhibit these traits.

Sometimes I feel a victim of my own circumstances and that free will is very difficult to take advantage of or build, and that I feel that the best path is partly determined by what is convenient and takes less energy in the form of willpower... Is this able to be related to maybe Si or maybe a general temperament? I believe that Introverts at least would more likely feel this way than extroverts...
 

Haven

Blind Guardian
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
1,075
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
IME it's mostly Ti types that fall for this, but most types have some kind of blind spot that leads them to making this error. It might just be that I notice it more in Ti types and there's no correlation at all.

Probably all of the introverted functions are cause for this error in its own way, they are all more concerned with self correctness than objective reality.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I thought about FAE, although it would appear to be that it isn't within one cognitive function. For example, take Te and Fe. They could equally argue that they're using FAE to enforce their decision. Te for using qualities that could be internal suitable for the job, or Fe for assuming that a certain quality about a person needs to be brought out or suppressed when it could or couldn't exist.

Ni could be the largest one in fact, taking the archetypal image of a person in their head, their own internal world forms images of what may appear in their own head.

Possibilities aside, no evidence on your part, my jurisdiction:

:notype:

I can write one about Te and fundamental attribution error. Or Fi and fundamental attribution error.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Okay I'll just dismiss all of this in favor of my own question for Si.... or I guess any type that may exhibit these traits.

Sometimes I feel a victim of my own circumstances and that free will is very difficult to take advantage of or build, and that I feel that the best path is partly determined by what is convenient and takes less energy in the form of willpower... Is this able to be related to maybe Si or maybe a general temperament? I believe that Introverts at least would more likely feel this way than extroverts...

I did say that Si was more likely to engage in fundamental attribution error. There are always going to be real examples of non-Si dominants who have done this. My ESTJ boss, on one occasion, explained to me that his temper came from his rough childhood. But he almost never talks about such things because his full commitment is to the 'git'r dun' present moment. I agree that introverts are partial to using the FAE as an excuse. And in my experience, those are Si dominants. But not always. The INFP with the Si in the tertiary position can also engage in the FAE.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Whether or not the FAE is type related, and I think it is, the most important thing to recognize is that blaming the past serves as a block to taking responsibility for behavior in the present time. Your past explains how you got this way, but it doesn't explain why you are still the way you are (which is a choice and not a pre-determined fate) or help to resolve character issues in the present.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I see that some people are not understanding the OP. I'm not saying that anybody is letting their childhood history hold them back. I'm saying that focusing on blaming the past for the present prevents one from focusing on the present in terms of why you are still behaving as if your childhood has made you what you are today. You, not your childhood, are making you what you are today. And it's your choice whether or not you want to focus on the present or keep using the excuse of "I'm this way because of something in the past."

Also, give other people a break from your judgments the same way you give yourself a break from judgment by blaming your past on character defects in the present time. Why are you so hard on others but not on yourself? You don't know that other person's history, at least not completely. As far as you're concerned, that other person can't help being the way they are. But you have the knowledge and ability to rise above that level.
 

Verona

New member
Joined
May 9, 2016
Messages
590
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
Why wouldn't the Si-dom be interested in finding out the motivations/character/intentions behind other people's behaviour? This post seems to jump to a lot of negative conclusions about Si-doms without any evidence to support these conclusions.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Why wouldn't the Si-dom be interested in finding out the motivations/character/intentions behind other people's behaviour? This post seems to jump to a lot of negative conclusions about Si-doms without any evidence to support these conclusions.

I did say "more likely." That means probably, not necessarily. So if it's not necessarily the case, then it would be necessary to get to know an Si-dominant individual to determine if that person engages in the FAE.
 

Tater

New member
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
2,421
If there's a function more likely than others to engage in a certain pathology known as the Fundamental Attribution error, that type would have to be Introverted Sensing.

Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In social psychology, the fundamental attribution error, also known as the correspondence bias or attribution effect, is the tendency for people to place an undue emphasis on internal characteristics of the agent (character or intention), rather than external factors, in explaining another person's behavior in a given situation. This contrasts with interpreting one's own behavior, where situational factors are more easily recognized and can be taken into account."

For example, the Si dominant will claim that his or her problems had their origin in some childhood trauma (an external factor); whereas your problems, whatever they are, are your fault, and there is no excuse for it.

Naturally the Si dominant, being past experience oriented, will symbolize an internal source such as a memory. But then they don't have access to your childhood memories, so all they can do is blame you while, for themselves, there is no personal responsibility taken for any character flaw. Usually this blaming takes the form of projection; their character flaws become your character flaws, or the fear of having a perceived flaw. And your very existence is translated into a symbol of whatever they fear or hate within themselves.

This contrasts greatly with the Si's desire and self-confident capacity to take on new responsibilities in the world around them. But it helps them obscure the fact that there is a blind spot in their self-awareness involving how to extirpate whatever character flaw still needs to be worked out. In this way, the Si dominant puts on a great show of taking on challenges, responsibilities, and the like in the external world, but never gets down to working on any internal challenges, because symbols from the past (or present) serve as an excuse not to work on oneself. They are placed 'high up on a pedestal' so that the Si dominant can't see beyond the symbols of the past and into the present moment without interpreting the present in terms of the past, as a Ti dominant judges everything in terms of how well it coheres with a strict yet static system of logic. As the past can't be changed, the symbols are static and inert, unchangeable and inflexible.

Labeling individuals or groups of people is a very common social tactic with this type. Just as the Si dominant can't grow in character because of the static nature of the symbols, they don't let other people grow beyond the labels they have been "blessed" with. If aggressive, this type will force the external world to conform to the static and immutable internal nature. If not, then there will be passive-aggressive attempts, depending on how much the Si dominant fears the judgments of others. If the Si function falls in the tertiary position, then attempts to gain conformity to the static rules will be through indirect methods such as manipulation.

No.
 

Norrsken

self murderer
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
3,633
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
For example, the Si dominant will claim that his or her problems had their origin in some childhood trauma (an external factor); whereas your problems, whatever they are, are your fault, and there is no excuse for it.

mike-f-follow-mikefossey-as-a-kid-if-i-misbehaved-3912947.png


Did someone sent you this recently and this is why you wrote all of that?
 
Top