edcoaching's Q & A Thread

[INTJMom]

Congrats on the new job!

A couple things to remember. Your auxiliary Te is her dominant function, so when you're communicating with her in the external world, she's in a sense got an advantage--she'll always do Te just a bit better than you. So...conscious effort on your part to categorize/think through if/then reasoning and every other way she might evaluate your ideas will serve you well. Her questions are going to constantly question your logic.

Also, even though INTJs are driven by competency to deal well with details, she more naturally wants every single hole filled in on every thing you bring to her--and can start firing questions at you when you're still in the midst of trying to get the big picture laid out. She wants the details first, adding them up to see the big picture, while you want to lay out the big picture and get agreement, then fill in the details. Very tricky. Since you're the subordinate you obviously have to meet her needs. Sigh. Just Wednesday, an ESTJ told me how her boss (INFP) had just introduced a new initiative. She asked so many questions about it that he thought she was resisting and blew up at her. She was taken aback--she loved the idea and was trying to figure out how it would work through her questions. You've got the opposite dilemma because you can't blow up!

Tips for persuading T's (From Work it Out by Hirsh and Kise:

• Make sure you're talking in terms of objective, measurable criteria for decision making that can be fairly and consistently applied
• Identify up front any flaws in ideas or processes--or possible concerns or critical paths
• be consistent--that's more important than how anyone feels about anything
• try to figure out her guiding principles
• figure out the pros and cons in advance so you can preguess her arguments
• You might also think about her Sensing needs--have the facts on hand and remember that past experience is her guiding light.

So there's no inherent reason ESTJs might give INTJs a hard time but there are definitely communication issues. A lot of Thinking women in leadership roles have also been beat up a lot for their style, even if they came out on top, and can be very sensitive about any, even if only perceived, challenges to their authority--for example, a subordinate who is at least as intelligent as they are. So be helpful, organized, keep your facts in a row and accessible, and it could all end up fine as she learns how you're supporting her...

Thank you!
I copied and pasted that into a word document so that I can refer back to it.
(and thanks for your comment, too, Haight)

I have learned how to speak more "S" language in the last several years, I think. I have 2 kids and a husband who are "S" types. And from being on this board, I have learned that my concise INTJ statements need to be fleshed out more to prevent misunderstanding. Hopefully I will get the hang of getting along with her.

 

[Geoff]

So there's no inherent reason ESTJs might give INTJs a hard time but there are definitely communication issues. A lot of Thinking women in leadership roles have also been beat up a lot for their style, even if they came out on top, and can be very sensitive about any, even if only perceived, challenges to their authority--for example, a subordinate who is at least as intelligent as they are. So be helpful, organized, keep your facts in a row and accessible, and it could all end up fine as she learns how you're supporting her...

I suppose one could rely upon the INTJ's natural acuity with social situations to link well with the ESTJ's delicate emotional empathy to ensure they get on?

 

[INTJMom]

I suppose one could rely upon the INTJ's natural acuity with social situations to link well with the ESTJ's delicate emotional empathy to ensure they get on?

 

[proteanmix]

INTJmom, what makes you so sure she's an ESTJ?

ESTJ is the preferred at work personality and she may have been projecting that persona especially during an interview. How much interaction with her did you have besides the interview process? I thought my INFP boss was an ISFJ for the first few months until I got to know her and how she viewed the world.

 

[INTJMom]

INTJmom, what makes you so sure she's an ESTJ?

ESTJ is the preferred at work personality and she may have been projecting that persona especially during an interview. How much interaction with her did you have besides the interview process? I thought my INFP boss was an ISFJ for the first few months until I got to know her and how she viewed the world.

That's a valid question. I did get some advice in a thread I started called How Do You Spot an ESTJ. And obviously, it would pretty arrogant of me to think I could discern the MB Type of a total stranger in an hour and never be open to the idea that I might be wrong. I read some of her online articles, too. While I am pretty certain she will turn out to be ESTJ, I am open to continuing to take in information and adjusting my theory.

It's best for me if I go ahead and assume she's an ESTJ and treat her accordingly - i.e. just let her have her way and don't argue - because xSTJs are the only type I have had trouble with over the last 40 years of my life.

They don't like my N ways.

 

[Frank]

The superhero stint ninja gang definitely is the Te ability to organize the external world--in this case your friends--and that NT combination when allowed to develop (i.e., the adults aren't punishing you for being "mean") has such confidence that other children simply follow.

I would think around 5th grade the T would still be ruling but the N might have started spinning scenarios on the down side of your ability to control others? I know of older T's who have then tried to map out different behaviors that they think will have a better impact on relationships, based on careful observation of others and thinking through how they themselves like to be treated. Kind of a calculated use of Feeling. They tell me that at first it seems very manipulative, but then people start to respond. I could see how an ENTJ child might dream up some similar behaviors to be nice but it'd be so unnatural that they'd probably exaggerate/be vulnerable to Feeling types who do it better and give it up quickly. I know an ENTJ female who tried similar behaviors in 6th grade and ended up the victim of bullying because within her clique the little Feeling types knew exactly how to go for her jugular...


Your "wants" to me echo the Te view of the world as a place where they can come out on top. At the same age I'd have somehow drawn a time machine and some sort of imaginary device (like a time machine isn't!!) that would let me live inside my favorite stories--a little Ni with no sense of the real world yet...

Thanks for the response Ed and for this great thread. I am sure you are helping in more ways than you realize.

 

[edcoaching]

Thanks for the response Ed and for this great thread. I am sure you are helping in more ways than you realize.

Thanks--It isn't that we NFs are needy re: warm fuzzies but that we need to know we're being helpful

 

[INTJMom]

Thanks for the response Ed and for this great thread. I am sure you are helping in more ways than you realize.

I, for one, am certainly glad edcoaching is here!

 

[cafe]

I, for one, am certainly glad edcoaching is here!

Thirded!

 

[Haight]

Who's Ed?

 

[edcoaching]

Like Ed Coaching...

 

[Haight]

There's no way that your name is Ed!

By the way, nice work on the "A" part of Q & A.

 

[edcoaching]

Thanks...

the abbr. seems good--actually it was my dad's name so...

 

[ygolo]

Are there any tips for NPs to create realistic deadlines for themselves?

Also, are there any tips for particular types and general malaise?

 

[disregard]

How would the term unconscious apply to the functions? Are introverted functions unconscious? Or inferior preferences? Or is there nothing relating the unconscious to this subject?

(Sorry if this is a strange question.)

 

[Simplexity]

How does Ni and Ne interact between types?

What would be your opinion of the dynamic or interpersonal relationship between INTJ's and INTP's

How would they collaborate in a work environment? what way can they contribute collectively? are their interesting benefits of working towards a goal with these two types?

 

[proteanmix]

How would the term unconscious were to be applied to the functions? Are introverted functions unconscious? Or inferior preferences? Or is there nothing relating the unconscious to this subject?

(Sorry if this is a strange question.)

I'm going to pretend I'm edcoaching.

I think introverted functions are still conscious processes. The function most associated with the unconscious is Ni because it deals with primordial and archetypal imagery.

The function closest to the unconscious is your inferior and all your shadow processes work unconsciously. You can consciously develop a shadow process but it is still very active in your consciousness without your knowledge. From what I understand you can become more aware of when a shadow process is being active but controlling when it turns on and off is something that's damn near impossible. Dominant and auxiliary functions are able to be shut off consciously to some extent but anything below tertiary tends to hijack a person.

 

[edcoaching]

Thanks, Protean Mix!! I'll be back online tomorrow morning and answer all these questions. My life got derailed by a landscaping project that grew out of control somehow...

 

[edcoaching]

Are there any tips for NPs to create realistic deadlines for themselves?

Most time management materials are written by J's and they seem to think if their methods don't work you're not responsible...but in truth a whole different look at time works for a lot of P's. J's often want to finish asap, P's often see creativity increase as deadlines loom. Often, though, part of J seems to be an innate sense of how long things will take and that's a skill many P's have to consciously work on to be effective at it.

Try planning backward. When you're first doing this, it'd probably help to sit down and make a list of what needs to be done. Let's say it's a term paper. A list might look like

• Read Hamlet
• Read 2 commentaries, one print and one from web
• Watch Olivier's Hamlet
• Determine paper thesis and evidence (rough outline or content map)
• Draft paper
• Trade papers with buddy for comments and revise
• Visit writing center
• rewrite paper
• Get buddy to proof it

Think about how much time you need for each step--think back on past papers for a guess.

Now fit it backward into your calendar. Let's say for example the paper is due Monday and you've got around 10 days. First put in everything else that's going on--other assignments, work, family commitments, sports teams, fav TV show you don't want to miss. You'd need Sunday for final rewrites and exchanging with your partner. Is he/she available or will that need to happen on Saturday? If you're booked Friday night, does your final rewrite need to happen Thursday night? Can you get to the writing center Thursday morning or do you need to go Wednesday? Keep filling in the slots you actually have available, working backward, until you can determine when you actually have to start. I've helped several people plot out their doctoral dissertations this way so they can graduate when they want to.

The other technique is "real" false deadlines, which you've probably tried but the trick is making sure they have meaning. for example, when an ENFP colleague of mine and I write together, he often concurrently teaches a course, making sure his course outline has him presenting material to his students about a week before he needs to get it to me, according to my deadlines. Another friend, when she has to give speeches, sets up a luncheon to talk through her outline a week or so before the event so she can't leave forming her main ideas to the very end.

Also, are there any tips for particular types and general malaise?

Could you expand here a bit so i don't answer the wrong question? Thanks

 

[edcoaching]

How would the term unconscious apply to the functions? Are introverted functions unconscious? Or inferior preferences? Or is there nothing relating the unconscious to this subject?

(Sorry if this is a strange question.)

It's not a strange question, but if you go through lots of type materials you'll find a lot of different explanations. I like the type development model, which puts forward that all functions are unconscious at birth. Learning how to use a function and gaining conscious control of that function happens over time.

The essence of type is our preferences for:
• Taking in information (Sensing or Intuition)
• Making decisions (Thinking or Feeling)

How do we describe immature people?
• They rush to a decision (they don’t take in enough information) or
• They can’t seem to make a decision (they take in too much information).

Either behavior results in an unbalanced, immature approach to decision-making and indicates that the individual hasn’t learned to use the preferences well yet.

Think of your psyche as a beach ball—the conscious part floats above the water while the unconscious is below the surface. We know it’s there, but we can’t see it.

We each use all four functions. You might think of these preferences as four different ways your conscious speaks to you. Your first or dominant function is like a megaphone—it easily gets your attention. Think of the second or auxiliary function as normal speech. The third function would then be a stage whisper, sometimes easy to hear but drowned out at other times. The fourth function, your inferior function is just a faint whisper, hard to detect unless you’re concentrating on it.

In other words, your first or dominant function is the most conscious of all your preferences: it is the one you began using earliest in life. Gradually, if you're maturing, you begin gaining some control of the second function. Now you've got healthy ways to take in information and make decisions. The second half of life is about working toward balance--T's add more subjectivity to decisions and care more about impact on people. F's find the value of logic. s's start planning for the future. N's start enjoying the moment. That's oversimplification but the point is that we gain some control over those functions, making them more conscious, but think of different objects, like the beach ball, floating in water. The dominant function bobs higher into the conscious. for the other 3 functions, each has more below the surface, with the 4th function always being the most submerged. Our conscious use of it stays at the skills level; it can still trip us up!