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  1. #11
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    I don't want to make this thread feel like work, but . . .

    How can one differentiate between being an INTP with a very weak P or an INTJ with a very weak J?

    I say this because my wife and I are the identical type, yet I think we are INTPs with weak Ps and she . . . yeah, you get the point.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #12
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    We get together next time I'm in DC/Baltimore. If we descend into verbal banter, ideas for changing the world, etc., you're INTJ. If we have a drawn-out, thoughtful conversation about a new way of modeling something (the functions, the theory of relativity) you're INTP.

    Seriously (sort of),
    • INTPs are the most withdrawn of all children, and Extraverted moms wonder if something is wrong
    • They pick up on a particular interest and follow it to the end--bugs, dinosaurs, etc. INT/FJs can have similar interests but they'll have more than one going
    • INT/FJ's often continues threads of their childhood fantasy worlds into adulthood
    • In grade school if the work was stupid, INT/FJs tended to rush through and be sloppy,go find something more interesting. The INT/FJ might tell the teacher it's dumb or suggest ways of making it better from about 5th grade on. INTPs often detach, stew on how dumb it is, not realize how much time is passing, never quite finish.


    It goes back to dominant function, too. I know this is basic, but are you more upset when someone doesn't listen to your ideas (N dominant) or when they don't heed your logic (T dominant). When someone asks your opinion on their plans/ideas, do you tend to critique but add to their ideas or do you tend to question it down to their world view that led to each assumption?
    edcoaching

  3. #13
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    First off in my experience, INTPS and INFPs, the most individualistic of all teh types, have the hardest time believing that any typing scheme could possibly describe their uniqueness

    This may seem simplistic, but I find that the key words for each preference dichotomy are often key to helping people determine which describes them. For T and F, it's decisions--where do their first thoughts go in decisions. Granted T principles and F values are tough to distinguish between but there's an objectivity to INTPs that is recognizable. The second piece that really helps is getting at the inferior--which actually trips them up.

    So...if someone can't decide between INFP and INTP I'd start with what concerns them most when they disagree with decisions. Is it the impact on the people involved or the lack of logic/fairness in the process? What's their first inclination when someone asks for an exception--to stick to the rules (T) or make an exception (F) (this works great once someone has children; every child knows who the Feeling parent is...). As a child were they seen as overly sensitive (F) or detached, observant (T). I have a book called LifeTypes by Hirsh and Kummerow that has a chapter on each type that begins with about 3 paragraphs on the childhood of each type--stories told by adults thinking back who know their type. I have people read the INFP and INTP paragraphs and 9 times out of 10 they recognize themselves.

    In your environment, making sure the client understands the deep value of both the persuasive style of INFP argument and the logical style of INTP argument. Sometimes they can start to decipher which is natural and which is learned. For me, INFJ, those first logical English lit papers were painful--I had to work from a clear outline or I'd lose my line of argument. I wrote my dissertation with a matrix in front of me or I'd have fallen into my persuasive traps (did a few times anyway and got to rewrite...).

    If that doesn't help, I go at it backward. Are they more likely to trip up in figuring out how others will react to something (T) or in failing to stay objective about something (F).

    Does this help at all? Interpretation is such an art that it's hard to think through when the person isn't interacting with me...
    It certainly does, thank you! I suppose from my own point of view, I am inherently much more likely to choose a logical line of argument, professionally and personally.. I'll reason with a structure that is based upon how events may transpire, and what factors influence it. The persuasiveness of the impact on the people is something I tend to struggle with - I see it as "I'm bad at playing politics".

    I enjoyed thinking through the childhood aspect.. I was the detached interest follower.. I'd spend months peering at posters of dinosaurs on my own. It was just me.. a classic T child, I suppose. I wasn't seen as sensitive although I was not rough and tumble either... I just didn't really get that involved.

    Coming back to the present day, when I write professionally.. I am excited by explaining the technicalities where they are intellectually interesting, and love the big picture... I always want to wrap it up in "this is what it all means and what we do next!". I'm not so good at remembering that I need to concentrate on persuading the stakeholders how it will impact on their culture and values. I suppose at heart I'm an INTP. I do however do a lot of counselling through work as a staff manager and take a keen interest in staff needs, problems, and work through issues with them. I suspect that as I've aged I've learned to enjoy using inferior functions, and so developed a warmth with people, but at heart it's maybe not my preference. So that's certainly been helpful.

    One thing I have learned is that "typical" INFPs... call me an NT, and typical INTPs an NF. It must be that I'm not strongly defined in either sense.

    I will also copy your answer to my similarly vexed INXP friend, so I believe to be INFP, but we will see.

    Thank you, thank you thankyou!

    Geoff

  4. #14
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    We get together next time I'm in DC/Baltimore. If we descend into verbal banter, ideas for changing the world, etc., you're INTJ. If we have a drawn-out, thoughtful conversation about a new way of modeling something (the functions, the theory of relativity) you're INTP.
    . . . hmm, could go either way. A little of both, as it were.

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    It goes back to dominant function, too. I know this is basic, but are you more upset when someone doesn't listen to your ideas (N dominant) or when they don't heed your logic (T dominant).
    The former first, but I will follow it up with the later - after I finish being upset, which will be from two to five seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    When someone asks your opinion on their plans/ideas, do you tend to critique but add to their ideas or do you tend to question it down to their world view that led to each assumption?
    Just the former. My opinion on the world views and assumptions of others is depressingly pessimistic . . . at best.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  5. #15
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    If we descend into verbal banter, ideas for changing the world, etc., you're INTJ. If we have a drawn-out, thoughtful conversation about a new way of modeling something (the functions, the theory of relativity) you're INTP.
    I think the problem with using this to determine type is that I will take my cues from the other person. Heck, I'll talk about celebrities and what show I watched on TV last night if that is what the other person wants to discuss. It doesn't mean that I'm enjoying the conversation, it's just that darn mirroring thing again.

    In grade school if the work was stupid, INT/FJs tended to rush through and be sloppy,go find something more interesting. The INT/FJ might tell the teacher it's dumb or suggest ways of making it better from about 5th grade on.
    Oh yeah. I was too introverted to tell the teacher, but I always that of ways to make assignments better. However, I also did the INTP thing and stewed about how stupid it was, waited until the last minute, but still managed to get it done with a good grade.

    I know this is basic, but are you more upset when someone doesn't listen to your ideas (N dominant) or when they don't heed your logic (T dominant).
    Definitely logic.

    When someone asks your opinion on their plans/ideas, do you tend to critique but add to their ideas or do you tend to question it down to their world view that led to each assumption?
    I'm definitely more apt to critique and add to ideas. Sometimes I am interested in their worldview, but it doesn't seem necessary to give my opinion.

    ------------------

    You said that it's all about what your dominant function is, but is it possible to have two that dominate? I took a cognitive processes test once and both my Ni and Ti were extremely high (same with Haight). What do you think this could indicate about my type? Do INTx types (or any x types) exist?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    When someone asks your opinion on their plans/ideas, do you tend to critique but add to their ideas or do you tend to question it down to their world view that led to each assumption?
    Humor content: "All of the above until they forever fear their own ideas, and their world view is lying smashed at their feet. 'Those satisfactions are permanent.'"

  7. #17
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    I might as well join in, a lot of good advice so far.

    Right now, I have myself typed as ENTP.
    However, I am borderline E/I & borderline T/F.

    This means I'm pretty sure I possess Ne but am unaware whether its dominant or auxiliary and I am somewhat confused with Ti or Fi.
    How would you differentiate the NP types?

    In response to your other post-I will make an exception to a rule if I feel it is reasonable to do so.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
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  8. #18
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Definitely logic.
    That's not true.

    The only reason you think that is because I always listen to your ideas because I don't want you to get upset.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  9. #19
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    a) As far as same type relationships: Any type can work with any type but for different reasons. Idealistically, your opposite besides the S/N works best but i've seen that bashed to pieces. Personally, when it comes to same type relationships, though it can work, I would never do it. I notice that when people do that, one of the two ends up subconciously substituting themselves for their shadow opposite. I actually do not have many ENFP friends mainly because I end up acting ISTJish. Odd, but its true for me.

    b) It's very easy.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  10. #20
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    I think the problem with using this to determine type is that I will take my cues from the other person. Heck, I'll talk about celebrities and what show I watched on TV last night if that is what the other person wants to discuss. It doesn't mean that I'm enjoying the conversation, it's just that darn mirroring thing again.
    I was speaking very specifically about the kinds of things I'd be talking about with Haight if he really wanted me to help him determine his type If I were the other one talking. I have lots of INTJ and INTP friends and the conversations just veer differently...

    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    You said that it's all about what your dominant function is, but is it possible to have two that dominate? I took a cognitive processes test once and both my Ni and Ti were extremely high (same with Haight). What do you think this could indicate about my type? Do INTx types (or any x types) exist?
    Do you really think that you're equally balanced in taking in information and coming to conclusions in your introverted world? Because that's what you're saying. I KNOW for example that alone, I can ponder the possibilities and come up with more forever--I would never finish writing projects if there weren't external deadlines. When I start talking about things I start coming to conclusions...
    edcoaching

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