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Why is Fi the most devauled or unappreciated function?

Blackout

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Hi, I was just wondering out of all the function why is it Fi-dom users are often expected to out of all the other types place to most importance on "developing" themselves and becoming/being more well rounded in the commonly thought of or perceived notions that they don't "understand reality" and that it's subjectively biased/useless and does not benefit anyone but the users own subjective and often biased/uselessness realities and seem to entice or provoke so much diversion or distaste?

Just curious and of course to avoid the realization or possible accusations of being "typist" many individuals outright say it, but I think it's pretty obvious and imminent in that the existence and dislike of it is real and obvious.
 

Thalassa

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I think people like Fi types and find them attractive IRL, unless they're seriously immature or extremely unhealthy. I think a lot of Fi bashing on forums is done by self typed NT, in my observation. Male INTJ seem weirdly embarrassed of their Fi, like "I'm always totally objective even though I just called you a cunt, and theorize that only anarco-capitalism is rational. No, no other belief system is rational!" I have seen this so much over the years, for some reason ISTJ seem more OK with it - likely because surface similarities in Si/Fi.

NTP simply don't understand it unless they're like 50 or 80, so expect the most bullshit, because in my experience, they actually negate my type of intelligence, and they don't even realize how childish it makes them look, apparently, unless they get more balanced or mature.

People would be lost without Fi, it serves it's place in society just like any other function. ..for example being able to stand alone against enormous Fe pressure, for what they believe is right, as well as in the arts, and fields like psychology, sociology, or emotional/spiritual healing.
 

Blackout

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I think people like Fi types and find them attractive IRL, unless they're seriously immature or extremely unhealthy. I think a lot of Fi bashing on forums is done by self typed NT, in my observation. Male INTJ seem weirdly embarrassed of their Fi, like "I'm always totally objective even though I just called you a cunt, and theorize that only anarco-capitalism is rational. No, no other belief system is rational!" I have seen this so much over the years, for some reason ISTJ seem more OK with it - likely because surface similarities in Si/Fi.

NTP simply don't understand it unless they're like 50 or 80, so expect the most bullshit, because in my experience, they actually negate my type of intelligence, and they don't even realize how childish it makes them look, apparently, unless they get more balanced or mature.

People would be lost without Fi, it serves it's place in society just like any other function. ..for example being able to stand alone against enormous Fe pressure, for what they believe is right, as well as in the arts, and fields like psychology, sociology, or emotional/spiritual healing.
I think a lot of people understate or misappropriate it's necessity or value it can bring though, and often it's relegated to sort of a periphery and on the fringes kind of in our society but often times many people in secret hold certain Fi-produced works or art, or literature in high adulation I feel, but through day-to-day life it's often quashed and misunderstood for something it's not readily.

Anyway, I can see all types doing that to at least some degree, because IMO it rounds sort of counter-intuitive to most other functions by it's very nature and is sort of "lone-shark" in that sense. What do you mean by "mature" as well? I am curious, what defines "mature" Fi-use.
 

Yama

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More like Si or Fe tbh
 

fetus

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Fi is glorified, imo.

I agree with [MENTION=23583]Yamato Nadeshiko[/MENTION]. Fe and Si get shit on the most.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Fi is glorified, imo.

I agree with [MENTION=23583]Yamato Nadeshiko[/MENTION]. Fe and Si get shit on the most.

True dat.

I am not a big Si fan for me personally, but what it can do is just awesome, for those that have it.

My dad's Si is amazing when combined with his tert Fi and he does woodworking and painting.

And those SFJs get a lot of grief, but I owe so much to SFJs over my life, whether it was my best friend's ESFJ mother who took me into her family like an extra son and showed me great love that I never got at home to the SFJ men who wear their huge hearts on their sleeves and are supportive of me today.

Crazy how whenever a Fe related thread turns into a Fe Fi issue, Fe users always get the blame for the disharmony when that is what they don't want..... I know, evil Fe expectations, not that Fi doesn't have huge expectations of how Fe should act.....
 

Blackout

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When does Fe get shat on? last time I checked XNFJ's are the one's who are seen as this "special" type to be and Fi is usually not glorified at all...
Si is sort of just, I don't know, I think it just gets overlooked a lot or something, but that's different then being purposely devalued. Besides that though, it's like oranges and apples, one is a perceiving function the other is a judging one.
 

Yama

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When does Fe get shat on? last time I checked XNFJ's are the one's who are seen as this "special" type to be and Fi is usually not glorified at all...
Si is sort of just, I don't know, I think it just gets overlooked a lot or something, but that's different then being purposely devalued. Besides that though, it's like oranges and apples, one is a perceiving function the other is a judging one.

Fe gets shit on all the time, that's why there's an Fe hivemind stereotype. Not saying that Fi doesn't get shit on as well, but the reason NFJ's are seen as "special" despite being Fe is because of the rarity thing and being Ni dom. SFJs are Si "conservative close minded traditional bastards" and Fe "hivemind" so they get shit on a lot.

Every function gets shit on in its own special way. I'm biased being an Fe aux myself, but I've personally witnessed a lot more hostility towards Fe than Fi.
 

Blackout

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Fe gets shit on all the time, that's why there's an Fe hivemind stereotype. Not saying that Fi doesn't get shit on as well, but the reason NFJ's are seen as "special" despite being Fe is because of the rarity thing and being Ni dom. SFJs are Si "conservative close minded traditional bastards" and Fe "hivemind" so they get shit on a lot.

Every function gets shit on in its own special way. I'm biased being an Fe aux myself, but I've personally witnessed a lot more hostility towards Fe than Fi.

Yes, everyone function get shit on it it's own "special" way but that's not to curtail or disavow that one type more then the other is looked down on or devalued more then the other. SJ's are judged for being "close-minded" not Fe I don't think and if the "Ni" thing was true, then why aren't XNTJ's exalted to such a similar degree, lol?

I almost wonder if it's always a case of Fi clashing with Fe? but even so, I almost think in the types where Fi is not dominant, the Fe preference in our society probably undermines their own understanding of selfhood. But anyway, I was not attempting to make this about Fi over Fe or something like that, I don't see why everyone wants to take the conversation in that direction. It's kind of only providing a strawman argument for the case.
 

Thalassa

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I think a lot of people understate or misappropriate it's necessity or value it can bring though, and often it's relegated to sort of a periphery and on the fringes kind of in our society but often times many people in secret hold certain Fi-produced works or art, or literature in high adulation I feel, but through day-to-day life it's often quashed and misunderstood for something it's not readily.

Anyway, I can see all types doing that to at least some degree, because IMO it rounds sort of counter-intuitive to most other functions by it's very nature and is sort of "lone-shark" in that sense. What do you mean by "mature" as well? I am curious, what defines "mature" Fi-use.

I think, per Jung, when Fi is having a bad day, they may be selfish, vindictive, vain, and from a practical perspective, even the most healthy Fi dom probably went through a phase of being hopelessly self absorbed, even pretentious, because it's only through this process baby Fi develops an aesthetic they can share, values they can stand behind for the greatest collective good, and/or identify and therefore empathize with and help others. In youth, or even later in inconvenient social situations, Fi may be accused of "selfishness" but in the end could be the most forgiving, generous and dedicated, for completely rational linear reasoning and true empathy which has nothing to do with social image, but because they just feel it authentically inside. This may lead oppositional types to call Fi "over sensitive" or "whiny" but I think only the most immature and sheltered Fi types just whine for no apparent reason. Which is unfair.

I agree that a lot of what Fi attributes to society in terms of the arts may be seen as "unnecessary" but that is because we live in a Te Dom society. I don't think it's the same traditionally in places like France or Russia. I've seen both places called FP due to their emphasis on approximates, and quality of life, as well as the way Russians are cold to outsiders, but are great and will give you anything in their inner circle. I've seen France and Russia actually both called EXFP.

The US is EXTJ. Once ESTJ, now ENTJ.

I am very bad at Ti, but I respect it through necessity...until I see someone applying it to completely bad foundational structure and screaming that it's logic. I think Ti types have similar feelings maybe about Fi, like they can see its merit, until they don't agree with it or something. But I do think there's a more collective push at least in modern society to congratulate even Ti, since the Enlightenment, where as Fi has been relegated to the Medieval or Romantic period. Western society is very black and white now unfortunately.
 

Yama

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Yes, everyone function get shit on it it's own "special" way but that's not to curtail or disavow that one type more then the other is looked down on or devalued more then the other. SJ's are judged for being "close-minded" not Fe I don't think and if the "Ni" thing was true, then why aren't XNTJ's exalted to such a similar degree, lol?

Yes, it's attributed to SJ, the temperament that gets shit on the most, because it's an Si stereotype. Fe gets shit on for being the hivemind because "Fe users just follow the crowd they don't actually have any personal values, they just do what society tells them to do!" The reason SFJs get shit on more than NFJs when it comes to Fe is because at least Ni is "cool and mysterious and rare" unlike Si which is just the function of your controlling ESFJ mom.

I almost wonder if it's always a case of Fi clashing with Fe? but even so, I almost think in the types where Fi is not dominant, the Fe preference in our society probably undermines their own understanding of selfhood. But anyway, I was not attempting to make this about Fi over Fe or something like that, I don't see why everyone wants to take the conversation in that direction .

I think people clashing over any function being worth more or less than any other is silly, and yet I see people (general people, not directed at you) doing it all the time. The reason I bring up Fe (and Si) isn't to make this a Fi vs Fe war, but to mention that, through my observations at least, which may differ from your own, Fe gets shit on way more than Fi, meaning imo I don't think Fi is the most underappreaciated function.



Handy dandy stereotype notebook just for fun:

Si: traditional conservative close-minded stuck-up asscandle
Se: party whore with the attention span of a goldfish
Fi: pretentious fuck, stick in the mud
Fe: hivemind nazi
Ni: ??????? i dont fucking. magic.
Ne: the same party whore bullshit as Se except slightly smarter because intuitive
Ti: like Fi except pretentious about technical shit rather than moral shit
Te: your boss at work who you fucking hate, controlling loudmouth

tag urself i'm SiFe
 

Cellmold

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Having had my own issues with what can be called Fi, I also have a lot of respect for it.

An artist of recent discovery is Petr Pavlensky, an actionism artist (in contrast to performance art) who makes his idealism known in opposition to Putin's regime in Russia by committing public acts of self harm. He once sat naked on the Red Square with a nail impaled through his scrotum, for example (This work is called Carcass and is to do with 'apathy, political indifference & fatalism of modern Russian society'). Or sewed his own lips shut outside the Kazan Cathedral after the jailing of Pussy Riot.

Essentially the state can't do anything to him he hasn't done to himself already. To me this is at the heart of Fi, that is the sovereignty of self and the selfs of others. I'm not advocating for the Fi - preferenced to self harm themselves, but I thought it was a good illustration of its power and necessity, particularly where those individual rights are most at risk or oppressed.

Those strongly felt notions of violation and injustice tend to be motivators that are often overlooked. But there are negatives as well.

I think when people have issues with Fi in typology, it's when people kick up a fuss over a perception of injustice or personal infringement that can't readily be identified, or which is perspectively minor in comparison to larger issues. The "I have the right to do what i want, when I want but to also be left alone when I want" is fine... right up until it starts to infringe on someone else's right to do what they want. That's where I'd hazard most of the Fe & Ti clashes with Fi come from.

Then we get these situations (I've been a catalyst and directly responsible for some on here.... me getting all roused up over clashing with an Fi member) where it's just a series of stubborn back and forths; the Fi digs in and whines about sovereignty, the Fe looks about for external support that it's ways are best and that Fi isn't considering others & and Ti goes "this is all bullshit, it doesn't make sense, back to LOL."

What's usually missing is a bit of perception on all sides involved. Life can't be always what you want Fi, just because everyone supports it doesn't make it right Fe, we're not entirely rational beings Ti, including yourself.

A simplification, but you get the jist.

*EDIT*

It's probably undervalued because there is currently a lot of substitution for it in day to day society. People who talk about and claim their individuality in a very mainstream and collective way. People with big egos and bigger chips on their shoulders, who latch onto social and political issues in order to plump themselves up.

It looks like Fi, might even be it in some cases, but it's ultimately undermining.
 

cascadeco

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I don't think Fi is unappreciated or devalued. Maybe there have been phases on the forum, but Fi hasn't been scorned on the forum in any broad sense for a long time. There might always be individuals though who have issues with a certain function.
 

PeaceBaby

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I think a lot of people understate or misappropriate it's necessity or value it can bring though, and often it's relegated to sort of a periphery and on the fringes kind of in our society but often times many people in secret hold certain Fi-produced works or art, or literature in high adulation I feel, but through day-to-day life it's often quashed and misunderstood for something it's not readily.

Yes, I hear what you are saying. Your error in taking this question and thread to a more successful dicussion-oriented space is asking it with the phrase "the most" devalued or unappreciated function. Fe dom or aux types by their very wiring are the most likely to see their type as being devalued when any kind of negative discussion takes place since the nature of the function has an expectation about how those kinds of discussions are allowed to take place. However, in society, rather than just looking through the limited lens of the forum, there's so much affirmation out there for the Je - Pi / Pi - Je paradigm that it's difficult to argue that Fe is "shat" upon. Fe enjoys a broad societal acceptance that Fi simply seldom sees extended to dom or aux users.

Additionally, and I find it interesting, because it's a double-standard I see get played out repetitively on the forum, in a thread about Fe, a deviation to talk about Fi within that context would be seen as "selfish". "This thread is NOT about Fi" is a complaint that would be readily levelled. But here we are in a thread about Fi, but apparently you can just come in and talk about any other function and posit that those other functions have got it harder as a reply. Always fascinating to watch it play out. No offence to those who desire to take the discussion there, because I personally don't mind tangents at all, just a values-based contradiction and pattern I see frequently.

So, Blackout, in our current world, no, there often isn't an appreciation for the role Fi plays, until the role is sorely needed. Je - Pi / Pi - Je are simply not as "shat" upon in the "real world" since those functions constitute much of the structure and tapestry of North American mainstream culture and societal expectation. Yes, Je - Pi / Pi - Je take flak here on the forum because people come here to vent and complain about the negative qualities of these functions in a way that would possibly induce deep censure out loud in "real-life". That however does not mean this complaint extends out in "real-life" to the same degree since the consequences would need to be weighed.

We are all wired the way we're wired though OP and there is a place for you; you've noted there are challenges so part of the key to solving them is in that identification. Take it further from just noting it and being frustrated about it - what would you need to do to solve this inner feeling of unappreciation?
 

Dreamer

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Yes, it's attributed to SJ, the temperament that gets shit on the most, because it's an Si stereotype. Fe gets shit on for being the hivemind because "Fe users just follow the crowd they don't actually have any personal values, they just do what society tells them to do!" The reason SFJs get shit on more than NFJs when it comes to Fe is because at least Ni is "cool and mysterious and rare" unlike Si which is just the function of your controlling ESFJ mom.



I think people clashing over any function being worth more or less than any other is silly, and yet I see people (general people, not directed at you) doing it all the time. The reason I bring up Fe (and Si) isn't to make this a Fi vs Fe war, but to mention that, through my observations at least, which may differ from your own, Fe gets shit on way more than Fi, meaning imo I don't think Fi is the most underappreaciated function.



Handy dandy stereotype notebook just for fun:

Si: traditional conservative close-minded stuck-up asscandle
Se: party whore with the attention span of a goldfish
Fi: pretentious fuck, stick in the mud
Fe: hivemind nazi
Ni: ??????? i dont fucking. magic.
Ne: the same party whore bullshit as Se except slightly smarter because intuitive
Ti: like Fi except pretentious about technical shit rather than moral shit
Te: your boss at work who you fucking hate, controlling loudmouth

tag urself i'm SiFe

hahaha this would be such a fun thread topic idea :happy2: People put down their stereotypes of each function but over the top and sarcastic, not actual stereotypes. Love Se, Fi, F...ok pretty much all of them lol
 

ZNP-TBA

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Hi, I was just wondering out of all the function why is it Fi-dom users are often expected to out of all the other types place to most importance on "developing" themselves and becoming/being more well rounded in the commonly thought of or perceived notions that they don't "understand reality" and that it's subjectively biased/useless and does not benefit anyone but the users own subjective and often biased/uselessness realities and seem to entice or provoke so much diversion or distaste?

Just curious and of course to avoid the realization or possible accusations of being "typist" many individuals outright say it, but I think it's pretty obvious and imminent in that the existence and dislike of it is real and obvious.

Some people associate Fi with selfishness and an uncompromising rigidness. Actually, I think when a Fi demonstrates these traits that's a manifestation of weaker Te (especially inferior Te). Fi is internal and personal thus it's not readily seen by passive onlookers (even though we might think we're seeing it). What we actually see is usually some manifestation of low Te which translates into a stereotyped rigidness but also appears irrational.

A healthy Fi user wields their feelings and emotions masterfully and can appear to be very empathetic can really understand people on a deep and personal level rather than an abstract and impersonal one. As a strong Ti user I'm pretty good at figuring out peoples' thought processes but that doesn't mean I actually understand them as a whole package. I find healthy Fi's understand people as a whole better.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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The descriptions and definitions of Fi are very inconsistent. There is some tendency to see it as purely gut and non analytical, but having grown up surrounded by Fi-doms, and having read Jung and others, I know it is very deep and structured.

Sensor functions, especially Si and the extroverted judging functions are the most often criticized from what I have seen. There is a clear reason for that. The people posting online tend to identify as iNtuitives and tend to be introverts, so are not often Je-doms. There are quite a few Je-aux, but far more Ji-doms than Je-doms specifically.
 

Fidelia

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Even though Fe gets a bad rap at times here, I don't really think any Fe users feel that their function is devalued or maligned especially because it's sort of reinforced as the norm.
[MENTION=25403]ZNP-TBA[/MENTION] expressed it really well.
 

ZNP-TBA

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Even though Fe gets a bad rap at times here, I don't really think any Fe users feel that their function is devalued or maligned especially because it's sort of reinforced as the norm.
[MENTION=25403]ZNP-TBA[/MENTION] expressed it really well.

Did you mean Fi instead of Fe? :p

Well, Fe sometimes gets a shitty wrap too.
 
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