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  1. #81
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't tend to see the pineapple, many times even if I am eating it, I am imagining that it is another person eating it, I taste it through layers of removal. I might have imagined eating pineapples all the day before and now I have a pineapple and I say to myself "okay now you're really getting to eat pineapple, enjoy it, experience it!" yet in my mind, I am now eating mangoes.


    Do you WANT to be someone else eating a pineapple, or does that just happen on it's own?

    Begs the question, if I could be anyone eating a pineapple, who would I be?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post


    Do you WANT to be someone else eating a pineapple, or does that just happen on it's own?
    It just happens, has since I was a girl. Someone else, in a different time etc.

  3. #83
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't tend to see the pineapple, many times even if I am eating it, I am imagining that it is another person eating it, I taste it through layers of removal. I might have imagined eating pineapples all the day before and now I have a pineapple and I say to myself "okay now you're really getting to eat pineapple, enjoy it, experience it!" yet in my mind, I am now eating mangoes.
    Very well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    That's hard to understand, but I think I do something similar to bolded *1 above. Sometimes I relate to my body as "a transport/communication/manipulation device" and I do something I call "letting the machine run." Basically, I've found that my body is remarkably well programmed for a variety of tasks, that if I were to try to consciously control, I would screw up, like catching a thrown object. I just think, "catch" (not actually verbalized) and let go. Eyes start tracking, feet move, arm goes up and then something is in my hand.

    But I'm still there while I do it.
    Something like that occurs with me too (I really like your "machine:run" mode description - you'll have to elaborate on it, as it's totally alien to me) but even when I'm, say catching a ball, I'm still not aware of my surroundings. I'm catching a ball with someone else's hand, analyzing and processing it as if it were not happening to me.

    *2 brings up the question, what do your dreams feel like? Sounds really uncertain.
    Strangely enough, my dreams can feel more real to me than anything IRL (or should I say, waking life). That's why it's such a torture when my head's a mess and I can't escape.

    *3 - sorry, but that sounds like it must be really confusing. Also, how the heck do you drive a car?
    haha! Good point! Well, as a mechanic, I was perhaps more aware of what was going on than at most any time in my life, but again, never at 100%. Even in the middle of high-speed drag races. There's consciousness, there's "me", but then there's huge amounts of smudge and blank area and the dream state. I've done crazy things in the dream state.

    I also have to say I'm never more aware of my Present than when someone is touching me. I go through most of my days without being touched by anyone except maybe my sister. One of my doctors told me to go out and wrap my arms around a tree and just hold on until I felt "present" to combat my already natural state of disconnect.

    If someone I don't know/don't like is touching me, I'm practically 100% present because I find unwanted touch oppressive.

    If someone I'm familiar with is touching me, it's like little islands of awareness.

    If someone I love is touching me, it's a strange mix of being painfully acutely aware of them and myself, and the dream state.

    Good stuff to know. Still don't get it, but subjective experience is like that.

    PS sounds like a nice evening. Seems like you remembered it ok.
    I did remember, and I'm grateful for it. The moments of sanity and peace stand out to me, like the liturgy of everyday loveliness. I have to say I was incredibly present and I never wanted to leave that moment.

    I envy Ss, and esp SPs because they can stand in the moment and not be shoved out of it. Drawing the marrow out of the bone, as it were.

  4. #84
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Thanks to beyond for bumping this topic. Reading this stuff is really fascinating. Even if I can't understand what it's like, it's still cool to read about. I'm with Quin though, I might get a bit dizzy if I thought about it too much.

    Hopefully, more people will chime in, this might just be the greatest topic ever.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  5. #85
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't tend to see the pineapple, many times even if I am eating it, I am imagining that it is another person eating it, I taste it through layers of removal. I might have imagined eating pineapples all the day before and now I have a pineapple and I say to myself "okay now you're really getting to eat pineapple, enjoy it, experience it!" yet in my mind, I am now eating mangoes.
    This is such a good explanation. I've always lived in a world of dreams, imagination, being someone else, or being an idealized version of myself. Always, since I was a very small kid. I can't remember not imagining some amazing version of the future or the past, where I was someone different, or some altered me. It's what drew me toward acting. If I were holding the pineapple, I probably would have focused on the pineapple as I decided to eat it, but then as I eat it, I will think "Yum, fresh pineapple!" and then my mind would start to make other connections based on what i'm watching on tv or browsing online, etc. There's a commercial for a breast cancer walk, and instantaneously, I thought about how I don't really relate to all the sentimental stuff that goes along with illness-survivor-awareness, then I put myself in the place of thinking what I'd feel like if my mom hadn't survived her bout with breast cancer, and then I imagine what it would be like to have a terminal illness--I put myself IN these places, feeling what it would be like, all in the space of a few seconds. Jumping from thought to thought, world to world.

    I might hear a song on the radio and imagine myself singing it, playing it, becoming the lead singer, doing interviews, auditioning, etc. And I can really put myself in those places, imagining dialogue, situations, places, everything. I'm never really in the here and now.
    Something Witty

  6. #86
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Whow! That's how it is to be INTJ? Very well explained, I can almost imagine it. So the perspective for NT is on the probable future, while for the NF it is in the improbable future...
    true i guess...i prefer the "ideal" future but yeah...usually improbable...but not always...someone has to try...you have to see it before you can do it, right?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #87
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I've always lived in a world of dreams, imagination, being someone else, or being an idealized version of myself. Always, since I was a very small kid. I can't remember not imagining some amazing version of the future or the past, where I was someone different, or some altered me.

    ...

    I'm never really in the here and now.
    I'm very much in agreement with Tal on this one (not a surprise ). It's more of an issue of where my focus (what of it there is) is. Back to the pineapple... I like pineapple. But it's not like I'm really going to savor it when I'm eating it. I'll almost certainly be thinking of something else - and if I do think about the pineapple, I'm not thinking about the flavor, texture, or anything like that (unless the salad bar people at the grocery store cut it too close to the core and I have to take time out to chomp through the woody part, like I did yesterday... ). I'll think about where it was grown, how it was processed, if it's been artificially bred for store-friendly traits, if it's really as fresh as I hope it is, and whether it's been treated with chemicals so that it looks better than it really is... *then* I might spend a fraction of a second analyzing whether it's really tasty or not. Then I might think for two fractions of a second about how tasty a really good, fresh pineapple would be, and how I'd pick it, what kind of knife (or what kind of machine) is best for harvesting pineapple, etc. - but I'd probably get lost long beforehand on a tangent about pineapple farming in Hawaii, how close to Hawaiian volcanoes pineapple can be grown, etc.

    And that's if I wasn't just eating like a robot, completely preoccupied with something else. That's been known to happen too... okay, pretty often - it's the case more often than not.

    Anyway, time for me to go to bed here soon - good night . Back to work tomorrow .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #88
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    But not without a few mis-steps. The first was pursuing vipasana meditation which nearly drove me to madness with the empty-mind concept always out of reach.
    If something is out of reach, that implies you're grasping for it.


    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #89
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    When I eat a pineapple or any other food, I usually just scarf it down without paying attention because I can't stop thinking about what I'm going to be doing after I'm done eating.

    Pineapples!!

  10. #90
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    When I eat a pineapple or any other food, I usually just scarf it down without paying attention because I can't stop thinking about what I'm going to be doing after I'm done eating.

    Pineapples!!
    Lol.

    I don't think I was really clear when I first wrote that I was imagining the pineapple. I don't think I even mentioned eating it. It's all good.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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