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  1. #71
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I don't get it. Where is this non-here and now?

    For example, I can imagine something that isn't here and now. Like, lets say, a pineapple. I'm thinking about this pineapple and I can 'feel' the texture and see the color and even 'taste' it although I'm really just projecting it in my head and there aren't any pineapples around me. If I'm not imagining something, then all that's left is the texture of the keyboard and the chair I'm sitting on and these words being typed on the screen.

    I guess what I'm asking is what do you see (feel, hear, etc.) when you "look out?" The future?!? Where else could you be besides here and now? Or do most people not spend time "looking out"?

    Confused.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #72
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I guess what I'm asking is what do you see (feel, hear, etc.) when you "look out?" The future?!?
    Um well... yes.

    We're imagining future scenarios and playing them out in our head. Or scenarios not connected in any way to a specific time.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  3. #73
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Um well... yes.

    We're imagining future scenarios and playing them out in our head. Or scenarios not connected in any way to a specific time.

    Ok so I mentioned the pineapple above (I like using weird examples). I can imagine the pineapple in my head. To me "out there' is a different space than the space where I would see (or feel etc) the pineapple. When you "look out", do you see it in the same space as you see the pineapple? That doesn't seem to make sense in my mind.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  4. #74
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Ok so I mentioned the pineapple above (I like using weird examples). I can imagine the pineapple in my head. To me "out there' is a different space than the space where I would see (or feel etc) the pineapple. When you "look out", do you see it in the same space as you see the pineapple? That doesn't seem to make sense in my mind.
    Well, I'm probably not imagining a pineapple at all. If I am, I'm probably imagining all the things I could do with a pineapple, and where pineapples come from, the evolution of pineapples, how pineapples affected past societies. What would happen if all pineapples suddenly disappeared, or what would happen if every orange tree suddenly starting growing pineapples instead, what a society of pineapple-fueled cars would look like. Yeah, I don't think I'm really explaining this well....

    Anyway, that's my (Ne-centric) approach.

    So I'm not really imagining a pineapple in my hands. I'm imagining parallel universes with a different set of starting variables.
    Last edited by Costrin; 02-22-2009 at 09:01 PM. Reason: doot
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  5. #75
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I don't get it. Where is this non-here and now?

    For example, I can imagine something that isn't here and now. Like, lets say, a pineapple. I'm thinking about this pineapple and I can 'feel' the texture and see the color and even 'taste' it although I'm really just projecting it in my head and there aren't any pineapples around me. If I'm not imagining something, then all that's left is the texture of the keyboard and the chair I'm sitting on and these words being typed on the screen.

    I guess what I'm asking is what do you see (feel, hear, etc.) when you "look out?" The future?!? Where else could you be besides here and now? Or do most people not spend time "looking out"?

    Confused.
    The pineapple is merely scenting my altered reality. I can be touching it, smelling it, tasting it, and still be only 40% present. I can never feel reality at 100%, even when something awful/wonderful is happening. That's the state of my intuition. It's something of a curse. I do what I can to apply my Se and make the moment real, but ultimately, I'm out of body, almost as if remotely viewing what's happening.

    I recall sitting in my ESFP bff's tiny kitchen, frying up pork chops and glazed apples, and listening to the radio in the window playing country music. We were chatting and laughing, and the evening was so pleasant and warm, and the grasshoppers were raising a low racket outside. I was sitting at the tiny kitchenette listening to Shorty and Jaye talk about something, standing over the chops on the stove, smelling the sting of pepper in the air, and STILL feeling as if we were in a dream. I was slipping back and forth between the past and future, like a liquid sloshing.

    It's impossible for me to be "present" without the past and future altering the picture, the smell, the color, the tenor, etc.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Ok so I mentioned the pineapple above (I like using weird examples). I can imagine the pineapple in my head. To me "out there' is a different space than the space where I would see (or feel etc) the pineapple. When you "look out", do you see it in the same space as you see the pineapple? That doesn't seem to make sense in my mind.
    I don't tend to see the pineapple, many times even if I am eating it, I am imagining that it is another person eating it, I taste it through layers of removal. I might have imagined eating pineapples all the day before and now I have a pineapple and I say to myself "okay now you're really getting to eat pineapple, enjoy it, experience it!" yet in my mind, I am now eating mangoes.

  7. #77
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    My Ni and Se are constantly battling with each other. So it means that on one hand, I can focus deeply into the future, yet in my day-to-day affairs I can't even plan for next week often(not to mention my job operates on a day-to-day basis). *sigh*

  8. #78
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    The pineapple is merely scenting my altered reality. I can be touching it, smelling it, tasting it, and still be only 40% present. I can never feel reality at 100%, even when something awful/wonderful is happening.*3 That's the state of my intuition. It's something of a curse. I do what I can to apply my Se and make the moment real, but ultimately, I'm out of body, almost as if remotely viewing what's happening*1.

    I recall sitting in my ESFP bff's tiny kitchen, frying up pork chops and glazed apples, and listening to the radio in the window playing country music. We were chatting and laughing, and the evening was so pleasant and warm, and the grasshoppers were raising a low racket outside. I was sitting at the tiny kitchenette listening to Shorty and Jaye talk about something, standing over the chops on the stove, smelling the sting of pepper in the air, and STILL feeling as if we were in a dream. I was slipping back and forth between the past and future, like a liquid sloshing.*2

    It's impossible for me to be "present" without the past and future altering the picture, the smell, the color, the tenor, etc.*3
    That's hard to understand, but I think I do something similar to bolded *1 above. Sometimes I relate to my body as "a transport/communication/manipulation device" and I do something I call "letting the machine run." Basically, I've found that my body is remarkably well programmed for a variety of tasks, that if I were to try to consciously control, I would screw up, like catching a thrown object. I just think, "catch" (not actually verbalized) and let go. Eyes start tracking, feet move, arm goes up and then something is in my hand.

    But I'm still there while I do it.

    *2 brings up the question, what do your dreams feel like? Sounds really uncertain.

    *3 - sorry, but that sounds like it must be really confusing. Also, how the heck do you drive a car?

    Good stuff to know. Still don't get it, but subjective experience is like that.

    PS sounds like a nice evening. Seems like you remembered it ok.
    Last edited by Bamboo; 02-22-2009 at 09:45 PM. Reason: PS
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    So I'm not really imagining a pineapple in my hands. I'm imagining parallel universes with a different set of starting variables.
    That actually makes sense. Also, I never noticed this emoticon and feel that it is appropriate:

    Ti for life. Hoorah.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  10. #80
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    The very thought of being in a 24/7 daydream makes me dizzy.

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