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  1. #81
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Everyone daydreams, because all types use all eight cognitive functions. Daydreaming about things that may never, or has yet to, occur takes Ni. Daydreaming about the past utilizes Si. You don't daydream with Ti and Fi because they are both action based cognitive functions. Instead, when in deep thought and analyzing a current problem Ti emerges, and when determining whether something fits into your value system you use Fi. All four functions may be misconceived as daydreaming, however only Ni and Si can be used for this type activity.

  2. #82
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    I relate strongly to what Laughing Dolphin posted earlier. It requires tremendous concentration on my part to keep focused on the here-and-now for even so much as a few minutes. Whenever I wind up having to run errands all day, I feel completely mentally drained, and I usually have a headache from the constant concentrating it required; far more drained than even if I'd been at a large party, for example. I also am extremely absent-minded and have had to train myself to pat my pockets for my keys, wallet, and cell phone. It's gotten to the point where I do it subconsciously now. A few friends have noted this and chided me for "patting my own ass" every time I go through a door. When I lived in the States and drove, I can't even tell you how many times I was headed someplace, but wound up driving halfway to my workplace instead as I zoned out and autopilot took over.

    I realize that for such practical concerns, if nothing else, my Se needs to be developed, but I just find concrete reality so completely uninteresting. What's more, I'm so completely unfamiliar with my Se that I wouldn't even know how to begin going about it. My Se, as far as I can tell, pretty much only distinguishes between "good" and "unpleasant/painful".

    In regard to the fiction conversation, I will read fiction, but only if it's by authors who write about fantastic applications of things I have an interest in, such as Neil Stephenson. As a result the only fiction I read is science fiction. Well, no, that's not entirely true; I will periodically read a "classic" for the sake of edification.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  3. #83
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I relate strongly to what Laughing Dolphin posted earlier. It requires tremendous concentration on my part to keep focused on the here-and-now for even so much as a few minutes. Whenever I wind up having to run errands all day, I feel completely mentally drained, and I usually have a headache from the constant concentrating it required; far more drained than even if I'd been at a large party, for example. I also am extremely absent-minded and have had to train myself to pat my pockets for my keys, wallet, and cell phone. It's gotten to the point where I do it subconsciously now. A few friends have noted this and chided me for "patting my own ass" every time I go through a door. When I lived in the States and drove, I can't even tell you how many times I was headed someplace, but wound up driving halfway to my workplace instead as I zoned out and autopilot took over.

    I realize that for such practical concerns, if nothing else, my Se needs to be developed, but I just find concrete reality so completely uninteresting. What's more, I'm so completely unfamiliar with my Se that I wouldn't even know how to begin going about it. My Se, as far as I can tell, pretty much only distinguishes between "good" and "unpleasant/painful".

    In regard to the fiction conversation, I will read fiction, but only if it's by authors who write about fantastic applications of things I have an interest in, such as Neil Stephenson. As a result the only fiction I read is science fiction. Well, no, that's not entirely true; I will periodically read a "classic" for the sake of edification.
    I identified a lot with the first paragraph. The other two, not so much. I'm relatively hedonistic about my favored physical pleasures (chiefly food and sex) and I enjoy many kinds of fiction including some of the classics. As a matter of fact, I've found (free) audio-novels a great tool for keeping my mind happily distracted while I do mundane tasks that don't take a lot of serious thought.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #84
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Everyone daydreams, because all types use all eight cognitive functions. Daydreaming about things that may never, or has yet to, occur takes Ni. Daydreaming about the past utilizes Si. All four functions may be misconceived as daydreaming, however only Ni and Si can be used for this type activity.
    I wonder if this applies to dreaming? Assuming you could remember your dreams. My husband tends to dream about things from his past, especially when it comes to nightmares. I, on the other hand, have really disjointed, end of the world dreams/ nightmares.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  5. #85
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I identified a lot with the first paragraph.
    So did I... I am constantly doing the "clothes patting" thing too (to check for wallet, keys, inhaler, and whatnot!) I do better when driving, because I focus more on it, but I can run routes in autopilot easily.

    And mostly it is because I find the internal world much more interesting than the outer. I collect data from the outer to construct my ideas, but I have trouble just sitting and "basking" in stimulation.

    Another thing that frustrates me is just not having a sensory-impression memory. I will sit and try to ingrain the details of a scene in my mind (a building, or a nature view, some large landscape, or the specific features of someone's face)... and as soon as I leave, I can't remember (!). Unless the data is being used specifically to support a concept, I just cannot for the life of me remember it. Although i am very good at immediately recognizing patterns and data I've seen before (like someone's face) I store concepts, not details, and couldn't recreate the actual image -- only the "form" of it" -- from scratch at all.

    So it's annoying when I would love to draw something, but unless it's in front of me, forget recalling anything specific. Only the concepts or the things that directly impact/change my internal world are recalled with clarity.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #86
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I just had an experience that I thought was quite telling regarding S/N differences. I was talking to my sister, ENTJ, and my friend Dave, ISTJ. I was saying that I usually can't picture people's appearances in my mind if they're not around for a couple of days or more, but that I can vividly recall their 'essence'.

    Dave looked really stumped like he didn't know what I meant. I tried to explain: "If someone's sitting next to you, and you close your eyes, can't you sense that there's someone there, even though you can't see or hear them or actually feel them touching you or anything? If they get up and walk out, even if they do it absolutely silently and your eyes are closed, can't you feel that they're not there any more?"

    My sister was nodding a lot, while Dave was just scowling and looking at me like I was some kind of crackpot.

    My sister then said, "Haven't you ever had that Dave? Like you can close your eyes and 'summon up' the person's essence, like you can 'see' their soul, who they are, and really feel their personality, as real as if you could reach out your hand and touch them, even though you can't SEE anything?"

    My sister and I agreed that neither of us can very easily picture people's faces in detail in our minds, and that we think it's because we're never paying attention to those details anyway and using our minds to 'see' rather than our eyes. I was avoiding using the word 'intuition' because I didn't want to bias the conversation and my sister doesn't know about MBTI - But she used the word herself, she said "I rely on my intuition really, more than what I can see - you can never go by what you see, so I tend not to pay much attention to it".

    And Dave just made WTF faces and seemed torn as to whether he thought we were crazy or if he felt a bit worried that he was inadequate in some way because he couldn't do this thing we were talking about doing so easily.

    It's weird, because this conversation happened because my dad just died on Sunday, and it got started cos we were saying how his face is one of the few faces - as well as my daughter's - that we really can clearly picture all the time in our minds. We talked about how it's strange that they both had in common Asperger's Syndrome, and speculated on whether that lack of 'connection' from their side meant that our intuition was a bit stumped as to grasping the essence of them (or because of our lack of understanding of ASD until recent years), and so we tended to rely more on our senses with them, as we had little else to go by. A bit like a Betazoid being 'stumped' by Data

    What do you guys think?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  7. #87
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I just had an experience that I thought was quite telling regarding S/N differences. I was talking to my sister, ENTJ, and my friend Dave, ISTJ. I was saying that I usually can't picture people's appearances in my mind if they're not around for a couple of days or more, but that I can vividly recall their 'essence'. ... My sister then said, "Haven't you ever had that Dave? Like you can close your eyes and 'summon up' the person's essence, like you can 'see' their soul, who they are, and really feel their personality, as real as if you could reach out your hand and touch them, even though you can't SEE anything?"
    Yes, that's what I do. The details escape me, but I know "them" -- I don't NEED to know their physical face particulars. I can "feel" them. I know who they are.

    [Tangent: I wonder if this will revive the "Hitler type" argument: He had such a grasp of details he could sketch large architectural structures to the smallest detail simply by viewing them in real life. It's hard to imagine someone as disturbed as him being balanced enough to be primarily an N, yet develop that sort of Se skill which would have likely been his inferior then. I can't buy that.]

    It's weird, because this conversation happened because my dad just died on Sunday,
    Nice way to sneak it in.

    I'm so sorry. I hope that you are all doing okay and glad your family can be there for each other. There is probably no tangible way we can help, but we're here if you need people to talk to.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #88
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, that's what I do. The details escape me, but I know "them" -- I don't NEED to know their physical face particulars. I can "feel" them. I know who they are.
    I've often thought it's why I connect so strongly and easily with historical people, because the fact that I never meet them or see them, never get any sensual connection with them doesn't matter and doesn't stop me from feeling that I'm 'with' them, if I can get their essence through their writing and/or studying their life and actions.

    [Tangent: I wonder if this will revive the "Hitler type" argument: He had such a grasp of details he could sketch large architectural structures to the smallest detail simply by viewing them in real life. It's hard to imagine someone as disturbed as him being balanced enough to be primarily an N, yet develop that sort of Se skill which would have likely been his inferior then. I can't buy that.]
    Not sure what you mean old bean, wouldn't mind expanding on that would you?

    Nice way to sneak it in.

    I'm so sorry. I hope that you are all doing okay and glad your family can be there for each other. There is probably no tangible way we can help, but we're here if you need people to talk to.
    Don't worry, I'm alright at the moment. True to my type, I'm currently teaming up with my ENTJ sister and we're taking control of all the planning, details, legal stuff, while our less pro-active relatives (ESFJ mom, ENFP brother, ESFP and ENFJ sisters) are doing all the crying and escapism. We're also the only ones with the balls to go and see the dead body, having to keep going back to put more things in the coffin for people who can't bear to do it themselves. Right now I'm just too busy with all that, I can't really think about my feelings while I've got things to do and people to take care of. We'll probably fall apart ourselves at some point, when we've a window in our diaries for it

    I have written a bit on my blog about it though (he mentions, forlornly).
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #89
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    I wonder if this applies to dreaming? Assuming you could remember your dreams. My husband tends to dream about things from his past, especially when it comes to nightmares. I, on the other hand, have really disjointed, end of the world dreams/ nightmares.
    Yet dreams are different, because they are most likely not lucid. Instead your hubby probably has a great deal on his mind, which are usually fragmented thoughts carried over into his dreams. I would say this is most likely to occur with those preferring Ti as their dominant or auxilary. Ti types usually like internal order and make all attempts to preclude too much chaotic thoughts.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So did I... I am constantly doing the "clothes patting" thing too (to check for wallet, keys, inhaler, and whatnot!) I do better when driving, because I focus more on it, but I can run routes in autopilot easily.
    I get "purse panic", that is all of a sudden I wonder if I have left my purse somewhere and I have to grab it or if I intentionally left it in the trunk of the car I need to remind myself.

    The year my mother first allowed me to carry a purse, I lost five of them in as many months. I am always losing my keys and other things.

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