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  1. #41
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That's a tough one. I don't think it could get around DNA, but it could be random still, correct? I'm not a geneticist, and it's not a subject I've done much reading on.
    One nongenetic factor could be what happens in the womb...an awful lot of variants cause differences in development over 9 months. I'm not saying this is where type comes from, just giving one example of innateness that isn't gene-based.

    The ties to brain patterns, differences in siblings that exist from birth, etc., all point to innateness but the why is a big question...
    edcoaching

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    The ties to brain patterns, differences in siblings that exist from birth, etc., all point to innateness but the why is a big question...
    That's a discussion I've had before. The answers which make sense are a: We're purpose built (by God, or whoever's Science Fair project humanity is); or b: It's an evolutionary asset. I lean toward the latter.

  3. #43
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Just as something as complex as intelligence is largely heritable so too is personality.

    Quantitative trait locus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Heritability of IQ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Behavioral Genetics
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    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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    CC: If you would've read my posts you would have noticed I said I didn't think type was inherited from ancestors, just that it's very possibly innate.

  5. #45
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Who said I was facepalming at you?

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    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #46
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I have no proof for this theory but here is my theory:

    Even though the functions are much better at portraying our "true personality" and there are moments where Ne is definitely different from Ni etc...
    I doubt our brain is actually wired to have a Ne or Ti pathway. I think even with environment removed, one persons Ti will be wired different from another persons Ti.

    Polygenic expression would best account for the previous statement AND account for why an ESFJ INTP parents can have a INTJ child.

    I do not think its polygenic for say Ne or Ti... I think a much better explanation would be akin to the STEP II differentaites between say E or I:

    polygenic expression for say:
    1. talkativeness/quiet 2. enthusiastic/reserved 3. gregariousness/etc...

    would ALL express for extroversion vs introversion. This allows for enough variation that parents can have seemingly way far off kids for MBTI and still allows the specificity that when all of these are expressed it can be reduced to jungain functions.

    the only problem is...how the hell are you going to test all of this? test rats for polygenic expression of talkativeness while controlling for enthusiasm???

  7. #47
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    N recessively heritable? Like blue eyes? Like there's a perception gene with an S allele and an N allele (which we'll designate "s"), and if you cross 2 Ss parents you have a 25% chance of having an ss and thus intuitive child? Are you saying this because 25% of the American population is supposedly N?

    I do think that it's partly genetic, as in, we're born with some aspect of it, or born with some built-in probability (predisposition) of being one or the other. And maybe our environment tips the scale to some degree. However, I highly highly doubt that this observational theory will neatly show up in our genes the way eye color does. Don't forget that the letters aren't functions in themselves.

    EDIT: Hey, doesn't Captain Chick study genetics? Where is she? We need an expert!
    as you probably know, we dont always follow simple Mendelian inheritance. humans are not always that simple! There can be:

    complimentary (aaBB or AAbb both get the same pheno because both effect a chain of events...its important because it allows two "affected parents" aaBB x AAbb to have kids that are totally normal AaBb)

    co-dominance (both A and b are expressed so its not black and white dom or rec in pheno).

    recessive or dom epistasis (say for instance for many years it goes on as M or m being expressed and works all fine and well...suddenly that gene is totally not expressed in favor of another because another gene that is normally HH ends up as hh (through rare Hh x Hh parents meeting eachother) and thus when hh its, turns off Mm in favor of another pheno.

    Polygenic: examples of this are height, skin color etc... many genes all with their own deal of working--anything from mendelain all the way to recessive epistasis--what ever you can think of all affect what looks like ONE trait.

    also there can be mutant alleles and even multiple wild types. example is that maybe on factor of thinking is not a dichotomy of A a, but actually A, a+, a^,a- ...yet follows mendellian inheritance.

    also there can be things like variable expression and incomplete penetrance all which affect how much a particular gene is expressed even if its "supposed to be" expressed.


    Its vary possible that its entirely genetic without making everyone into a predicitable archetype.

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