Observations of the function stack

[Punderstorm]

How should I start this off? I'm here to introduce y'all to a theory that I have about the stack. First off,
-we have 8 spots, the middle of the stack is function 4
-we also have 8 functions, 4 judging and perceiving
-there are 16 HEALTHY combinations, or ideal combos, those are the representative of the type like FiNe for INFP, now not every INFP has FiNeSiTe in that order of strength, but every INFP must have FiNe in order to be considered for INFP.
-everything in your top 3 are supposed to help you, they are used for the benefit of yourself and others, lower functions are negative, for example Si is associated with memory and significance of the object or idea, higher Si is going to be more sentimental or place more significance on better experiences, lower Si is the opposite. It's going to place emphasis on the bad or negative qaulities of objects or memory.
-functions in the lower 4 positions, or shadow, can still help you but at the cost of others, for example INTJs Ti, they can still use Ti but they don't create systems of logic, they tear them down. They can use Ti, but only in a destructive way.

 

[wolfnara]

You should look into Model A in Socionics. I agree that we use all the functions ( the functional stack can mislead people into thinking we only use four functions, because it ignores the opposite functions for some reason, which doesn't make sense). Also noticed people tend to forget that the tertiary function is not a strength. Not sure if I understood this correctly but according to your theory, the shadow functions manifest negatively in personality. I agree that an TJ would only use Ti destructively, as they understand the processes of Ti and may realize it's usefulness but prefer to use the opposite orientation (Te).

 

[Punderstorm]

The tertiary can be strengthened and developed which is why I place it in the strength category. I've looked at Model A and used it as inspiration for my theory.

 

[Punderstorm]

You can also type based on inferior faxations, for example IxFPs have inferior Te, that manifests itself as a need for external organization.

 

[KitchenFly]

for example INTJs Ti, they can still use Ti but they don't create systems of logic, they tear them down. They can use Ti, but only in a destructive way.

This is simply incorrect. They do creat systems of logic they simple need to work harder to develop the functionality of there 5 wing IN"T"P. They also utilise Te via there 7 wing EN"T"J.

Ti & Te via Ni,. That's the way it works and Ti,Fi,Si.

The conflict for the INTJ involves the two usages of Ti via point:5 and Ti via point:6

No wonder they have a difficult psyche that can tend to doubt. Look how the structure works.

1. Ti from auxiliary wing (agenda) preferred Ti for the INTP 5w4.
2. Ti from core point energy INTJ Point:6 6w5. Ti second preference.
3. Ti from subsidiary wing (4) 4w3 ENFP third preference Ti.
4. Ti from subsidiary wing (8) 8w9 ESFJ fourth preference Ti.

ISTJ (3) Te and INFP (9) Te are the stress points and freedom points if the system is understood correctly for the INTJ.

Now why do INTJ's tend to bought and stress, ,,lol,, well I wonder ,,lol,.. 3,4,5,6,7,8,9.

No wonder the SP INTJ's tend to be the more stable of the six different INTJ types.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I still have a lot to learn about shadow and so on...

[MENTION=27495]Punderstorm[/MENTION] can you explain why for and how to develop the tertiary ?

How does an inferior Ni manifest to you ?

 

[ZNP-TBA]

[MENTION=27495]Punderstorm[/MENTION]

I think what you wrote is just one theory on how to view the functions. It's a stack of eight but it sort of treats the functions in isolation from each other. Some in the MBTI community look at functions in terms of pairs or axes. The idea is that each function has an offsetting or balancing opposing function. It's like a scale or seesaw and the higher or lower the function is the stack determines its 'weight.' For example I'm an ENTP so I am a Ne-Si, Ti-Fe. My natural preference for observation is Ne which is my heaviest preference which means that my preference for perceiving my own impressions is Si but Si is a 'light weight' in my psyche. Fundamentally my method of discovering my own internal impressions is the same as any Ne/Si - Si/Ne type ( I.e. an ENTP and ISFJ still share the same core preferences). The same holds true for my aux/tert (Ti-Fe) but since neither is very disproportional ( they are more evenly distributed in 'weight') Ti for me doesn't exactly repress Fe very much so those functions are more balanced in most ENTPs.

It doesn't mean that ENTPs or whatever type are incapable of using the Ni-Se or Te-Fi axes (opposite axes) but it's not a 'natural' or 'native' part of the psyche. Experience can teach anyone to tap into any axes pair but it's kind of like using a second language. You can learn to speak the second language well but your native language is still what you think in and it plays the most prominent role in organizing your thoughts. There is not 'translation filter' your mind imposes .

 

[Punderstorm]

[MENTION=27495]Punderstorm[/MENTION]

I think what you wrote is just one theory on how to view the functions. It's a stack of eight but it sort of treats the functions in isolation from each other. Some in the MBTI community look at functions in terms of pairs or axes. The idea is that each function has an offsetting or balancing opposing function. It's like a scale or seesaw and the higher or lower the function is the stack determines its 'weight.' For example I'm an ENTP so I am a Ne-Si, Ti-Fe. My natural preference for observation is Ne which is my heaviest preference which means that my preference for perceiving my own impressions is Si but Si is a 'light weight' in my psyche. Fundamentally my method of discovering my own internal impressions is the same as any Ne/Si - Si/Ne type ( I.e. an ENTP and ISFJ still share the same core preferences). The same holds true for my aux/tert (Ti-Fe) but since neither is very disproportional ( they are more evenly distributed in 'weight') Ti for me doesn't exactly repress Fe very much so those functions are more balanced in most ENTPs.

It doesn't mean that ENTPs or whatever type are incapable of using the Ni-Se or Te-Fi axes (opposite axes) but it's not a 'natural' or 'native' part of the psyche. Experience can teach anyone to tap into any axes pair but it's kind of like using a second language. You can learn to speak the second language well but your native language is still what you think in and it plays the most prominent role in organizing your thoughts. There is not 'translation filter' your mind imposes .

I agree 100%, that's basically how I thought of it. I like the language analogy, we can view an axis of functions as languages, some people are monolingual and have difficulty tapping into other functions or understanding the other point of view, whereas those who are borderline don't have a distinct preference and can easily traverse through functions.

 

[Punderstorm]

I still have a lot to learn about shadow and so on...

[MENTION=27495]Punderstorm[/MENTION] can you explain why for and how to develop the tertiary ?

How does an inferior Ni manifest to you ?

The tertiary is a beneficial function, it shares the same orientation as the dominant(usually) and is used when the aux and dom can't solve a problem. It's used to relieve stress as well. Developing the tertiary....first off, you need to figure out what function your tertiary is and then try and do activities associated with it, say if your tert is Te, try organizing your external environment, it'll be hard but you will eventually develop it. You could also strike a friendship with a person that has your tert as their dom, it'll help both of you in the long run too.

Ni is associated with mental landscape, future thinking and an aura of confidence in ones predictions(can't really explain Ni uggh). Higher Ni will have a positive landscape, a realistic view on the future and an aura of confidence, lower Ni is gonna have less of that and more of negative or inflated,view of ones self, the future and abilities. There's a reason why INxJs are stereotyped as vaguely arrogant and confident, and Ni looped with anything always causes something to happen with self esteem. Inferior Ni would manifest as a pervasive doubt(or an inflated trust) in ones abilities, a hatred of introspection and future-thinking. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Punderstorm]

Observations of Ni-Fi loops
-INTJ's have a sort of intellectual arrogance in this phase, these people don't know what's going on(Ni), I'm more competent!(Te-Fi)
They also become more physically violent.
-ISFP's have more of a vanity or narcissism in this phase, these people are immoral punchbags(Fi), I'm more beautiful and intelligent(Se-Ni)
They also have a bleaker view of humanity and a harsher attitude in general.

 

[Punderstorm]

7th function, aka the literal worst.
Ah the 7th function, forget your inferior as the weakest, this takes the top spot! This can be the key to confirming someone's type, confused about one of the INxJs? Well, does that person either a) despise Fe or b) despise Te?

Well what does that look like? Trickster Fe takes form in the lack of social conformation. The person DESPISES group activities, won't do things just for the sake of fitting in or simply ignores Fe.

Trickster Te is a little tricker, maybe that person hates rules, restrictions, boundaries.

 

[Yama]

Trickster Fe takes form in the lack of social conformation. The person DESPISES group activities, won't do things just for the sake of fitting in or simply ignores Fe.

oh hey me too

 

[Punderstorm]

What is Se?
Se is the so called environmental awareness that xSxP's are supposed to have, the need for stimulation, new ideas, experiences...in theory.

Se is not environmental awareness, it's not the need for stimulation. Se is the preference for current information, data of an object. Se overlooks all contexts and focuses on the properties of the object. While there is a physical, concrete element involved that is part of the properties.

 

[Punderstorm]

Judging and perceiving
Help! I'm between INFP and INFJ! I can't be an INFJ because I'm too messy but I'm too orderly to be an INFP! Ah, a common dilemma. IxxJ vs IxxP, the label of judger and perceiver is actually very misleading, in fact the opposite is true for each! IxxJ's lead with Pi whereas IxxP's lead with Ji. If that's the case then why do we have those labels?

 

[Punderstorm]

What is the 5th function really?

 

[Jeremy8419]

Wanna behaviorism thingy for functions? I made it like a couple months ago but then got bored of it and never finished it.

 

[Verona]

Judging and perceiving
Help! I'm between INFP and INFJ! I can't be an INFJ because I'm too messy but I'm too orderly to be an INFP! Ah, a common dilemma. IxxJ vs IxxP, the label of judger and perceiver is actually very misleading, in fact the opposite is true for each! IxxJ's lead with Pi whereas IxxP's lead with Ji. If that's the case then why do we have those labels?

I've often thought that the P and the J should be switched for the introverted types.

 

[Punderstorm]

Wanna behaviorism thingy for functions? I made it like a couple months ago but then got bored of it and never finished it.

That sounds pretty cool!

 

[D'Ascoyne]

You can also type based on inferior faxations, for example IxFPs have inferior Te, that manifests itself as a need for external organization.

Is faxations an autocorrect typo for functions? If so, very nice.

 

[Jeremy8419]

I've often thought that the P and the J should be switched for the introverted types.

Well, Jung decided the strongest function and then stated if it was rational or irrational, and then placed the second function as the strongest function of the opposite. Myers-Briggs, on the other hand, stated the first two functions, then applied rational or irrational to the pair based upon extroversion or introversion. They don't use the same process. Myers-Briggs has extroversion or introversion affect two things in her stack. Jung has extroversion or introversion affect one.

That sounds pretty cool!

Convergent Perception - Tendency for perception to converge on a singular point, or from point to smaller point within larger point. Associated with predatory vision and hearing.
Divergent Perception - Tendency for perception to diverge from singular point to nondescript, peripheral, or unfocused state. Associated with anti-predatory, or prey, vision and hearing.
Movement Response - Movement towards or away from food sources or predators; fight or flight
Signal Response - Signals inability of movement control in presence of loss of food sources or predators; cries for help, signal of inability to change Movement Response

Sensing, Intuition, Thinking, and Feeling, respectively.