User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 85

  1. #41
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I love a good irony, and we people create them a'plenty.

    I think there actually is a general way to distinguish between confirmation bias and a conclusion based on analysis. It has to do with recognizing and expressing the nature of the system. MBTI is by its nature an approximate system. Confirmation bias will use the natural flexibility and indistinctness of the system to mold it into preconceived hard, absolute results. The analytical mind will form conclusions that are a natural outgrowth of the system. MBTI is most useful when the fuzziness of its boundaries are kept clear in the mind and are integral to any conclusions based on its principles.
    I actually don't think MBTI is very fuzzy (or at least it isn't applied that way), which is essentially my problem with it. The only room for fuzziness in the system is how the four functions interact with each other, not within the functions. (I guess this is a pretty nit-picky point; forgive me. It seems we agree anyway.)

    As long as the fuzziness is clear (heh, that sounds funny), you're right, it's possible to use the system correctly. Again, and this is really the point of the thread, to actually use it this way seems to take as much work as building a framework from scratch for each person. And I find that I actually do that. MBTI might give me a tiny jumping off point, but not much.

  2. #42
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Moar:

    You don't even need a written system to operate the way I do, but it simplifies it. You think "I have met a few people like you before, and when I said something like this, they hit me. I won't say this to you."
    Oh yes. I do this all the time. MBTI is not necessary for this, though. In fact, it might make you think people are different that are actually close to the same. You might NOT see this if the two similar (within a certain trait) people happen to be ISTJ and ENFP for example.

  3. #43
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Even with all the lines defined (which they are in my understanding)
    I still don't think there is enough definition on how we are supposed to perceive "levels" of function usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    MBTI really doesn't DO much besides the whole verbal shortcut thing.
    Well, that's kind of the point. If a fully defined MBTI is useless, then so is animal taxanomy, or conventions of logic, etc...
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #44
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I still don't think there is enough definition on how we are supposed to perceive "levels" of function usage.
    There are no "levels" of function usage. There is just function interaction. Maturity comes from frequent use of each function. The functions themselves stay the exact same.

    Well, that's kind of the point. If a fully defined MBTI is useless, then so is animal taxanomy, or conventions of logic, etc...
    I agree here. It is the point, it's basically the only point. To apply it further is the mistake I see many people making all over this forum. Look at some of the recent threads...

  5. #45
    Member sleepless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    81

    Default

    I never got this from your first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance
    The problem is, there is always more than one way to describe a behavior from a functional standpoint. Ne, Fi, Te, Si can solve the same problem that Se, Ti, Fe, Ni can solve. They can explain their thought processes in the same way.
    I don't think I have heard this before. Could you explain? (please)

  6. #46
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    I can completely connect with people (almost on par with therapists), and I essentially don't use the MBTI framework at all in doing so. If anything, it's hindered my ability since I'm losing information trying to shove an irregular shape into a regular-shaped-hole.
    I fear you're right. But MBTI is such an interesting framework... it's hard to let go of it. I know it doesn't really work as well as my own way of understanding and guessing about people (after several years of trying to make it work), and I'm trying not to use it seriously anymore. I think it might be hard to stop trying to think in terms of it, though.

    It's kind of like one of my friends said... you should just view it as a "conceptual toy" to play with, and not take it seriously. I think I'm better off thinking of it that way.

  7. #47
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I fear you're right. But MBTI is such an interesting framework... it's hard to let go of it. I know it doesn't really work as well as my own way of understanding and guessing about people (after several years of trying to make it work), and I'm trying not to use it seriously anymore. I think it might be hard to stop trying to think in terms of it, though.

    It's kind of like one of my friends said... you should just view it as a "conceptual toy" to play with, and not take it seriously. I think I'm better off thinking of it that way.
    Yes. This is exactly the way I think about it now.

  8. #48

    Default

    I believe the archetypes are more fundamental than a proscribed function-preference order or the use of dichotomies directly. The two-primary functions determine "balanced" archetypes in this system. That is why my most prefered typing scheme is Temperament and Interaction Style yeilding Archetype--if not noticing an Archetype directly.

    Still, I am really conflicted about the use of archetypes.

    On the one had, I believe that there are "innate universal psychic dispositions that form the substrate from which the basic themes of human life emerge," and that it "is only possible to live the fullest life when we are in harmony with these."

    On the other hand, the empericist in me wants "evidence" to back up my beliefs, and the humanist in me wants to not limit people based on stereotypes. The empercist turns the archetypes into sterotypes, and the humanist shatters them.

    That's the sort of mindf*cked situation I kept finding myself. I believe, there are deep desires and an active and powerful subconcious. As far as I know, we have yet to be able to capture these in an objectively verifiable schema, and, so far, all attempts to create schema have been dehumanizing.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #49
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    So if real understanding of people is a woman, then MBTI is like a sex toy

    Damn you all, you people with a knack for psychology. I will stay in the darkness forever
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #50
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,878

    Default

    Okay... Really?!

    People can "What if" all damn day long. "But what if he's driving and it's cool so he's using more Se than Ti at that moment?!" I'm sorry, that didn't make any sense to me. It would still make him a Ti if throughout his life he tends to favor that side.

    What if people aren't all the same? what if you can't place people into one of 16 neat little categories? ... People are always somewhat off. I'm an E that enjoys reading quietly in my room, sitting by myself for hours pondering, blah blah blah. There are exceptions to everything, and the world and people are too complex to stop at simple E's and I's, T's and F's, etc. Behavior itself is a generalization.. because people will always react differently to situations based on too many circumstances to even begin to think about and I will save my poor fried brain from attempting such.

    MBTI gives a generalization into the way a person might typically think, feel, and react. I just recently learned about it through the friends I have made here, and truly it has helped. I think there is something to it, and I'm optimistic about it's use in daily life. My empathy and my ability to understand and recognize the reasons behind someone's actions have helped me a great deal, and I saw it especially through my ISTJ friend. Not to get too much into a rant, I think that MBTI was worth it even if that were the only thing it ever did for me.

    It's not perfect, and no behaviorial method of classifying something a complex as the human mind will be. But it sure does help to have a calculator somtimes when you're doing math.

Similar Threads

  1. The Decade is almost over
    By Atomic Fiend in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 10-12-2017, 10:54 PM
  2. Why MBTI is Death for Society
    By Ginkgo in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 147
    Last Post: 06-05-2014, 06:02 AM
  3. Why MBTI is Anti Australian
    By Mole in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-19-2010, 08:02 PM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-06-2009, 08:42 PM
  5. what MBTI is the desktop
    By entropie in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-05-2008, 04:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO