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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Another thing. Say you're an INJ racecar driver. You describe the experience of driving as just being in the moment, feeling and noticing all of the sensory data coming through. You're using Se, yeah? It could even be the state in which you're most comfortable. You could be "better" at using Se than an ESP. But MBTI calls it the inferior function, and when you tell someone that you're an INJ, they assume you are out of touch with Se. If you really wanted, you could take the time explaining that you're an INJ with a highly developed Se; you could come up with some explanation for why you seem not to fit the system without contradicting the rules. But it's as if we're scrambling for reasons that the system works before questioning the system itself.
    I aggree with you, but I wanted to expand this. I do not want to defend MBTI, there are no structured theories I obey anyways.

    But, if the racecar driver is possibly very much in touch with his Extroverted Sensing. Is it not a logical mistake then to conclude that he is possibly an INJ that it is in touch with his Se, because as per definition of MBTI INJ are this not.

    Do you get, what I mean ? According to theory of the MBTI, a Se function is a lowly developed thing in an INJ, what stands and can not be corrupted without destroying the theory.

    In my opinion the MBTI is right but it lacks precision. Then again it did never aim for precision, otherwise it would have picked more functions.

    When I look at the MBTI, I focus on the main function and then try to break down its possible means towards oneself and the outer world. The INJ race driver could be very possibly a total blind man, who has no Se at all. But after studying a racetrack and driving it for sometime, he has got it in his blood. And then when driving he has hunches or a 6th sense about when a thing is going to happen.

    See, I do not try to bend things into MBTI theory. But according to theory, you have your prime function and all others fall in its developed state in a gradient from 1 (main function) to nearly 0 (4th function).

    That was meant by theory and you cant just say, someone is pretty good at his 3rd function, because according to theory, this would be his first function.

    Do you get what I mean ? I am just picking on the logical inherent true nature here
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    See, I do not try to bend things into MBTI theory. But according to theory, you have your prime function and all others fall in its developed state in a gradient from 1 (main function) to nearly 0 (4th function).
    It's obvious that everyone uses Thinking, Feeling, Sensing, and Intuition all the time. Multiple times a second. If the dominant function has a value of 1, I bet the inferior function still has a value of .6+. But it's never applied like that. And even then, some people might have a .8 inferior and a .6 tertiary. Some other people might have a .2 inferior. All you can infer from the type is the dominant function, and the direction of the middle two. That's it. The order is just a trend; you can't apply that part.

  3. #33
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    It is useful in a macro sense, but applying it to individuals almost guarantees misapplication (unless you are extraordinarily careful, but then you're narrowing your scope so much that you end up not saying much).



    I completely disagree. Staying on the level of dichotomies makes misapplication even more likely. Thinking versus Feeling? What a joke. You end up putting things against each other that aren't actually in opposition.
    See note at rivalry.
    Its not a contrast noobs.

    Listen to dissonance.

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    It's obvious that everyone uses Thinking, Feeling, Sensing, and Intuition all the time. Multiple times a second. If the dominant function has a value of 1, I bet the inferior function still has a value of .6+. But it's never applied like that. And even then, some people might have a .8 inferior and a .6 tertiary. Some other people might have a .2 inferior. All you can infer from the type is the dominant function, and the direction of the middle two. That's it. The order is just a trend; you can't apply that part.
    Ok, just wanted to make sure, no rules of the equation are being swallowed .

    When it comes to what you say about, why someone can not have a Ti/Fe connection as opposed to the Te/Fi connection, I aggree with you. That is really, how you understand the functions. The functions in itself are completly made up and obey now natural rules.

    So if the MBTI is really thought through, according to theory a Ti/Fe construct would lead an INFJ to be more likely an ENTP.

    It is just the question, how far this is applicable for real psychology and how well the makers of MBTI thought this through.

    Again according to theory a Ti/Fe construct, accompanied by Ni and Se cant really work, because you have no real perceiving function (if I got this right).

    From my point of view, I think the MBTI stands in it correctly under 2 premisses. The 1st it is no science, it is made up. And 2nd you just can see how well you fit into one of the personalities, but you will never fit 100%. The personalities are more like the foundation of your personality of which you build your house on.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Arbitrary classifactions can actually be quite handy. What I do agree with though is that too many things about the MBTI or the functions is left undefined. A class system with fuzzy lines and gaping holes is no good.
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  6. #36
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Arbitrary classifactions can actually be quite handy. What I do agree with though is that too many things about the MBTI or the functions is left undefined. A class system with fuzzy lines and gaping holes is no good.
    Even with all the lines defined (which they are in my understanding), MBTI really doesn't DO much besides the whole verbal shortcut thing.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Even with all the lines defined (which they are in my understanding), MBTI really doesn't DO much besides the whole verbal shortcut thing.
    As stated, if you find it useless, pay it no mind. It helps me IMMENSELY in determining how I will interact with a person--A Real World application.

  8. #38
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    As stated, if you find it useless, pay it no mind. It helps me IMMENSELY in determining how I will interact with a person--A Real World application.
    We agree then. If someone finds it useful, they should use it. The application scares the shit out of me, though. Watch out for confirmation bias; that's all I have to say.

    I personally don't find it useful; I get people quite well without it.

  9. #39
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    How interesting. Now how do we distinguish from people who are just using confirmation bias versus people who ARE thinking through it but come to the same conclusions as the confirmation bias people?

    What a meta-thread. It practices the same flaw it's bitching about. That's quite an achievement.
    I love a good irony, and we people create them a'plenty.

    I think there actually is a general way to distinguish between confirmation bias and a conclusion based on analysis. It has to do with recognizing and expressing the nature of the system. MBTI is by its nature an approximate system. Confirmation bias will use the natural flexibility and indistinctness of the system to mold it into preconceived hard, absolute results. The analytical mind will form conclusions that are a natural outgrowth of the system. MBTI is most useful when the fuzziness of its boundaries are kept clear in the mind and are integral to any conclusions based on its principles.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    We agree then. If someone finds it useful, they should use it. The application scares the shit out of me, though. Watch out for confirmation bias; that's all I have to say.

    I personally don't find it useful; I get people quite well without it.
    Moar:

    You don't even need a written system to operate the way I do, but it simplifies it. You think "I have met a few people like you before, and when I said something like this, they hit me. I won't say this to you."

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