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What are the functions, really?

fetus

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Somebody please give me very good descriptions, analogies, and examples of the functions. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding, and I would like to know these things. Mostly for my own personal typing journey, to be honest - because I am self-absorbed and obsessed with my dumbass identity. :)

So...something beyond the stereotypes? Something that isn't "Si is tradition, Fe is hugging people."

Thank you.
 

indra

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I think it's very important to understand the foundations from which we've come to view reality over the years, "on the backs of giants".

Read Kant. Read Schopenhauer. Read Nietzsche.

Read Jung. If you don't feel particularly enlightened about the subject you skipped a step.
 

Yama

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Si is having a preference for the familiar (rather than doing something new, unless you are feeling it), a sort of living nostalgia, that feeling that pulls you to "go back" and revisit the things you love, and preserving or "keeping alive" that which is important to you in memory.

Si is not the living embodiment of 1950s gender stereotypes, religious values, and societal norm policing.

My contribution of the day :D
 

thoughtlost

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I agree with Sunyata.

It's better to read about the functions on your own. Not that people cannot get the functions "right," but just be wary of relying too much on other people's ideas.
Since you're using this to understand yourself, it's good to know when to rely on your own understanding of yourself because, no matter what type you are ...there will ALWAYS be an aspect of yourself that people do not understand.
and know when you may need outside help as they are aspects of yourself that you may not readily see/acknowledge for whatever reason.
 

Dreamer

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Ugh! I hate that "Si is about tradition"! Umm..ya...kinda (to my understanding) but it's missing the point entirely. Preferring tradition (I just hate that word, almost as bad as "possibilities" when referring to Ne *mini throwup*) As [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] pointed out, it's familiarity. Over time, you develop a better sense and personal relationship with what something is, voila, there you have sentimentality. Si also has the possibility of allowing someone to fall into routines and remain in their comfort zone. My ISFJ best friends are both this way, and I'm often the one trying to get them to go out with me for the night or to do something a bit more spontaneous.

But ya, I think this thread absolutely needs to happen, where the functions are discussed, minus all the catchphrases and over-used terminology seen plastered all over the internet.

P.S. Feel free to correct me, 21lux :D I am only inferior Si after all.
 

Yama

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Ugh! I hate that "Si is about tradition"! Umm..ya...kinda (to my understanding) but it's missing the point entirely. Preferring tradition (I just hate that word, almost as bad as "possibilities" when referring to Ne *mini throwup*) As [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] pointed out, it's familiarity. Over time, you develop a better sense and personal relationship with what something is, voila, there you have sentimentality. Si also has the possibility of allowing someone to fall into routines and remain in their comfort zone. My ISFJ best friends are both this way, and I'm often the one trying to get them to go out with me for the night or to do something a bit more spontaneous.

But ya, I think this thread absolutely needs to happen, where the functions are discussed, minus all the catchphrases and over-used terminology seen plastered all over the internet.

P.S. Feel free to correct me, 21lux :D I am only inferior Si after all.

Sounded fine to me--or at least, I would fit that description. Though I can't speak for all the Si-users. :D

And of course, the comfort zones are bigger or smaller depending on the SJ--my ISTJ usually jumps on board new things before I do... it just has to prove to have some sort of practical use/interest/point first. And depending on how well developed the other functions are, the SJ will be more or less willing to go outside of that zone.
 

Poki

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Ugh! I hate that "Si is about tradition"! Umm..ya...kinda (to my understanding) but it's missing the point entirely. Preferring tradition (I just hate that word, almost as bad as "possibilities" when referring to Ne *mini throwup*) As [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] pointed out, it's familiarity. Over time, you develop a better sense and personal relationship with what something is, voila, there you have sentimentality. Si also has the possibility of allowing someone to fall into routines and remain in their comfort zone. My ISFJ best friends are both this way, and I'm often the one trying to get them to go out with me for the night or to do something a bit more spontaneous.

But ya, I think this thread absolutely needs to happen, where the functions are discussed, minus all the catchphrases and over-used terminology seen plastered all over the internet.

P.S. Feel free to correct me, 21lux :D I am only inferior Si after all.

Kinda like Ti and logic...yeah, kinda, in a way, but not completely, half ass, I really don't care much about the correctness of logic nor the application of it to lead my life. I care more if it's so far off base it screws things up.
 

Dreamer

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Kinda like Ti and logic...yeah, kinda, in a way, but not completely, half ass, I really don't care much about the correctness of logic nor the application of it to lead my life. I care more if it's so far off base it screws things up.

Nice! Theoretically, all the interior functions work similarly and all the exterior functions, the same right? And while I think this way with regards to my Si and Fi especially (I'm one giant bank of processed human emotion haha) Ti still seems so foreign to me. On a conceptual level, I get it.
 

Poki

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Nice! Theoretically, all the interior functions work similarly and all the exterior functions, the same right? And while I think this way with regards to my Si and Fi especially (I'm one giant bank of processed human emotion haha) Ti still seems so foreign to me. On a conceptual level, I get it.

So that makes me one giant bank of processed human thoughts :D

Mental paths are interesting especially the gaps which cause paths to break the expected path. That little nuance of info that redirects a single thought from its direct path into another realm. It's like a detour sign for a road. While all others follow the expected route.
 

Dreamer

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The most twisted thing I've heard in a while, was from an ENTJ, and he said that he loves to play chess, because when he does, depending on the moves his opponents take and how they strategize, is sort of a mental dance for him. To him, playing chess is such an intimate experience for him because it allows him to get into the mind of someone else.

It was so fascinating for me to hear, because to me, talking with someone one-on-one, offers me the same quality and intimacy, but on an emotional level. Just as he does in playing chess, I tend to have a fairly accurate read of what someone's all about after chatting with them for a bit.
 

Inarius

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As an ENTP, the use of Ne/Ti/Fe allows to discuss any subjects, randomly, while unconsciously making a map of someone (unconsciously because i can't access to it while i'm talking or discussing, it's something i can process, but later) ; it's quite close from ENFP and Enthusiastic_Dreamer post, actually, but something less emotional, I think. More of an intellectual experiment. I do like to discuss (one on one, of course), but it's about to learn about humanity and differences, and trying to create sub type of people, analysing and refine my own model. Even if i talk (and listen) with passion, it doesn't mean i do care about you, or have any emotion or feeling. It's intellectual excitation.
That's why many think i'm very warm, until they see some of the "real me" someday.
Here, the use of function is very clear.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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So that makes me one giant bank of processed human thoughts :D

Mental paths are interesting especially the gaps which cause paths to break the expected path. That little nuance of info that redirects a single thought from its direct path into another realm. It's like a detour sign for a road. While all others follow the expected route.

This would be an Ni stoned thought for me. Right on. How'd you do that? :laugh:
 

Poki

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This would be an Ni stoned thought for me. Right on. How'd you do that? :laugh:

Lmao...I swear I have a psychotic mental side locked up somewhere. I can do that while still connecting all the dots.
 

Dreamer

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As an ENTP, the use of Ne/Ti/Fe allows to discuss any subjects, randomly, while unconsciously making a map of someone (unconsciously because i can't access to it while i'm talking or discussing, it's something i can process, but later) ; it's quite close from ENFP and Enthusiastic_Dreamer post, actually, but something less emotional, I think. More of an intellectual experiment. I do like to discuss (one on one, of course), but it's about to learn about humanity and differences, and trying to create sub type of people, analysing and refine my own model. Even if i talk (and listen) with passion, it doesn't mean i do care about you, or have any emotion or feeling. It's intellectual excitation.
That's why many think i'm very warm, until they see some of the "real me" someday.
Here, the use of function is very clear.

Oh I can totally relate to that as well Inarius! The part of communicating with people and making it feel like you're emotionally connected, when really, it's the mental stimulation you're after. It must be the Ne at work, because many times, unless I'm talking with a close friend or family member, what I'm doing is actually probing and getting their incites and perspective on the world. Sure, I enjoy people very much, but what ends up happening often, is people end up thinking I'm more invested in the relationship than how I actually feel. I think one difference with the Fi is, I'm probing by asking questions that coincide with my personal world views and motivations. Not necessarily just to figure them out and to pick their brains, but seeking what their motivations and dreams are in life since I feed off of that and use it to possibly shift gears a little if it aligns with my internal values.

How about yourself? Is there any sort of "aim" with your probing, or analyzing? Jeeze, this makes me feel like a selfish ass here, but I think that's really just part of the nature of the Ne beast, that never-ending curiosity ;)
 

VagrantFarce

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They exist in the same way markers on a map exist, or a diagnostic criteria exists. It's something you use to navigate and make sense of things. If it doesn't work for you, no shame in throwing it out.

If I were asked to pin them down...I find them far easier to understand when you differentiate them from their opposite, so:

Se: Experiencing things in terms of their "sensate experience" as they happen to you, directly, in real-time. No filter, no greater awareness, just what it is.
Ni: "Looking at" things in a way other than their direct reality. Abstracting and experiencing things in terms of how they fit prior abstractions. Wholly re-contextualising what is happening.

Ne: Experiencing things in terms of their abstract connections as they introduce themselves, and what that might change. Imaginative, broad and adventurous.
Si: Relating things to how their "sensate experience" matches up to prior sensate experiences. Extremely grounded and specific.

Te: Quantifying the world as it occurs, so as to more easily navigate and exploit it.
Fi: Understanding things in terms of innate desire and need, as it emerges from something's actions or expression.

Fe: Aligning to the world emotionally, navigating in terms of creating an affiliative and political harmony.
Ti: Understanding things in terms of a logical, timeless "wholeness", watching the clock's gears move everything behind-the-scenes.

Michael Pierce does a great job of this:

 

Inarius

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Oh I can totally relate to that as well Inarius! The part of communicating with people and making it feel like you're emotionally connected, when really, it's the mental stimulation you're after. It must be the Ne at work, because many times, unless I'm talking with a close friend or family member, what I'm doing is actually probing and getting their incites and perspective on the world. Sure, I enjoy people very much, but what ends up happening often, is people end up thinking I'm more invested in the relationship than how I actually feel. I think one difference with the Fi is, I'm probing by asking questions that coincide with my personal world views and motivations. Not necessarily just to figure them out and to pick their brains, but seeking what their motivations and dreams are in life since I feed off of that and use it to possibly shift gears a little if it aligns with my internal values.

How about yourself? Is there any sort of "aim" with your probing, or analyzing? Jeeze, this makes me feel like a selfish ass here, but I think that's really just part of the nature of the Ne beast, that never-ending curiosity ;)

Well, about your question, I'd say that I'm more aimless (Ne after all !). It's all about opportunity, most of the time. When i'm around people I don't have interest in (that is to say, most of the time, at work, or with people I don't know), I'm just "fishing" (what I call "fishing" is throwing some little baits all around), and, quickly when I feel "something" different from what could be deduced from what I saw before, focusing on it, and then digging and digging (that's the part when I use Fe, and when people think I'm so interested in them, because I ask them about things very personnal, and I suddenly "seems" like a close friend). It happened several times when people told me they have never said something in particular to anybody before, even if I don't know them so well.
I think that, sometimes, I have represented some sort of "hidden friends/confident", someone to whom you feel you can say anything, and won't judge you. And I did give them very insightful remarks, sometimes. But, as I say, it's not because I care, but because I can. When you see personnal problem with logic, and detachment, sometimes it's easier. It's the Ti part, processing all this, alone, later. And, after all, it's not that I don't judge people, but more that i ALWAYS judge people, and that my judgement is a never-ending process so always likely to change.

But it's aimless, yes. And it can't be otherwise ! You don't know what can people can learn to you. Actually, most of the times, you learn more about the people themselves than about what they say per se...as I have said to my INTP brother, it's not because most people are not interesting that you can't make interesting things with them. Even stupidity has its own interest.
 
Last edited:

fetus

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I am especially interested in Fi vs Fe. I think I may have been given wrong information for years.
[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] [MENTION=7991]chickpea[/MENTION] [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] What is Fi?
[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] [MENTION=18445]thoughtlost[/MENTION] [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] What is Fe?

I really would like to acquire some new Feeler information.

Edit: If any other Fi/Fe users would like to put forth some insights, that would be great. :)
 

Litsnob

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Oh I can totally relate to that as well Inarius! The part of communicating with people and making it feel like you're emotionally connected, when really, it's the mental stimulation you're after. It must be the Ne at work, because many times, unless I'm talking with a close friend or family member, what I'm doing is actually probing and getting their incites and perspective on the world. Sure, I enjoy people very much, but what ends up happening often, is people end up thinking I'm more invested in the relationship than how I actually feel. I think one difference with the Fi is, I'm probing by asking questions that coincide with my personal world views and motivations. Not necessarily just to figure them out and to pick their brains, but seeking what their motivations and dreams are in life since I feed off of that and use it to possibly shift gears a little if it aligns with my internal values.

How about yourself? Is there any sort of "aim" with your probing, or analyzing? Jeeze, this makes me feel like a selfish ass here, but I think that's really just part of the nature of the Ne beast, that never-ending curiosity ;)

All of this makes sense to me and sounds familiar, though maybe where I am different is that I do have a level of emotional investment in and caring for the person because it will instantly develop through this communication experience. I think that if I know just one more individual better, I know that much more about the collective whole and that can only be a good thing. It's really not clear to me whether I care more about the collective whole or about individuals. It's both, but I guess I have a difficult time saying one takes priority over the other.

I do want to know what other people think so I can add it to my own mental library, possibly adjusting my own thoughts on the subject, or not. On the other hand, I am at the same time hoping to add to the conversation partners mental library as well, by inserting myself into. I am hoping that we both come away mentally expanded.
 
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