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[Ni] xNxJs: describe Ni as you understand it

Virtual ghost

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You all saw the other threads and therefore you all know what to do.

I am trully curious what will come out of this one. Go!
 

pinkgraffiti

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To me, this is the most interesting thread of them all, because I really dont understand Ni. Is it some sort of mystical thing or what?

Please, INFJs, INTJs, come here, give your opinion, offer your experience.

Thank you.
 

á´…eparted

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I really hope this thread doesn't become a shitshow or a pissing contest, but I'm not holding my breath.

Ni is my aux function. Unlike Fe I sort of have to tune and make conscious use of my Ni. It doesn't just run automatically all the time, and only turns "on" when Fe needs it. Which admitdly is quite frequent. I describe it as my "convergence" source, that draws the common pattern from my Fe information. It's the glue and map of all of Fe's information and binary essentially, and helps decode it. It's kinda nebulous and hard to pin down, but I have spent a lot of time working to "backtrack" the sources of Ni working. I can usually do it if asked. Ni seems to work A LOT in hindsight for me, and often when it's operating in the moment (usually with Se) it will inform me of patterns that I don't understand, but know to trust. When I take a step back I am able to see what Ni threw at me, and can be kinda shocked or impressed that I noticed what I did without conscious thought. It actually used to bother me because it made me feel like I was being an egotistical charlatan with it, since I couldn't explain or back things up.

The best way for me to describe Ni is non-linear. It's the primary reason why I have not, and never will consider myself a linear thinker. The Ni-dom users will likely make best use of this thread though, because in those cases it's fully "on" and on display at full capacity. I only use it at high, but partial capacity.

Ni doesn't really interest me as a function anymore. I spent way too much time on it in years past, so I'm just bored with it, and much of it's talk just feels like a passive aggressive ego contest.
 

Virtual ghost

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Can anyone relate to this ?


I use Ni when ...


When I on regual basis see the outcomes before they happen. Sometimes long before they happen.

When most of my life is spent on preparing for the future.

When I insist that I understand the whole picture. Past, present and future.

When I play with long term trends in order to realize where in space and time those trends will meet/clash.

When I am bothered by events that are vastly outside of my life span.

When I knew more about the universe at the age of 5 than the average person knows in adult age.

When all the time I have this though bubbles coming out of my unconciousness and offering me solutions that I couldn't figure on the spot.

When in a matter of seconds I determine the best path out of 30 scenarios. (xNxPs do not believe me regarding this).

When I redefine term or I am redefining terms based on circumstances. (If it is in position A than it has X effect but if it is in position B then it has Y effect). Si and Ti heavy users usually hate when I do this.)

When I get exausted from extensive brain usage even if from the outside it looks as if I am wasting time/resting.

When I can completely space out and ignore environment entirely.

When I completely take away the feeling of journey from people by defining the desired/probable outcome.

When my speech patterns and usage of words most people describe as "strange". Not wrong, just strange.

When people see me as the elder/prophet in the group and come to me for opinions on regular basis.

When I believe that everthing can be explained in more complex manner but there is just no enough time for that on regular basis.

When I am careful regarding safety becuse I have a mission to accomplish and I do not want to compromise it with pointless mistakes and stuff I don't really care about.

When people see me as very talented but very stubborn. (since they do not see what I see)

When I cut off details in order to make point of the story much more obvious.

When I make classification of scenarios of how the human history may end.

When I finish peoples sentences with great precision.

When I can see nothing but how to get from my current position to desired goals.

When I fantasise about having god like powers.

When I hide dark and morbid side of myself even if I like such things very much. Therefore giving the other people feeling that they know me well even if that is not really true.

When I am certain that the ends simply has to justify the means if progress were to be made.

When there are two parallel thinking processes in me, one is focused on environment in front of me and the other is focused on doing something completely unrelated to the current events.


Thoughts ?
 

Gutter Fairy

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My experience of Ni is that it is nebulous, and as such it is sensitive to outside influences. Outside winds confuse the process by scattering the context and the process shuts down. The contents of Ni get called images, but I don't experience them as pictures. They don't have a physical presentation. But items in Ni seem to me to be distinct when I need them to be. There's a sense that I turn things over from time to time. In contemplation I can bring one collection of associations to the fore and mentally play them forward, bringing new elements to bear and turning the old associations over. The dynamo for that kind of contemplation is novelty. It doesn't happen unless playing those associations forward generates some new combination. The kinds of associations that can exist in this way depend a lot on what you've poured in in the first place - what you've read, where you've been, who you've talked to. What you're concerned with.

I think contradiction is the key to novelty in Ni. What can not be. You make it be, and then you know something new. As introverted intution is an introverted process, and kind of contained, there's a lot that can not be. I mean that in the begining there's a lot outside of the container. So if there is at least something in the container, then there's a lot that can be known in due course after speculating on all of what can not be for that. You end up, I think, with a story of what can be.
 

Forever

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VagrantFarce

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To me, this is the most interesting thread of them all, because I really dont understand Ni. Is it some sort of mystical thing or what?

I think it only seems mystical to some, especially to Extroverted Perceivers. But if you're in the thick of it, it feels natural - you're just thinking, after all.

I think of it as like having your own private pool in the back of your mind - you live your life, and you watch the way the reflections dance on the wall, and something just rises to the surface. These things aren't really something you can say out loud, but they do "push" in a certain direction - they hint at the words you might want to say, or the words someone else might say. At the end of the day, it's a gut feeling.

The trick then is in translating it into a "real-world" exercise, one that retains whatever the hell it is that makes it what it is. Sometimes it's astonishingly clear, and fairly straightforward to accomplish. Other times, it can be like jumping on a moving train while holding all of your luggage - you just hope you don't drop any of it in the process. Or perhaps you'll look into the world for already-existing examples of it, and point at that. But "it" is not connected to any one thing in time, so it could run the gamut and be extraordinarily broad. You might want to find a new way of expressing it, in a way that you're capable of pulling off. It will only ever be a facsimile, a small totem that hints at something inexpressibly larger, but that's just the way it is - you do what you can.

p.s. this is another reason why it seems so mystical - it's 100% impossible to pin down without being frustratingly vague. Again, you do what you can.
 

RobinSkye

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I'm "trully curious" too. :newwink: Ni is quite a mystery to me, but I still feel that I relate to it more than most functions.
 

Amargith

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You ever been inside one of those illusionary rooms? Where they suddenly shift the ceiling to become the wall and the wall to become the floor, with you inside the room, sitting safely on a bench? And suddenly, everything clicks into place, the furniture makes much more sense and you have that 'aha' moment?

That's what my shadow Ni is like :ninja:
 

pinkgraffiti

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Can anyone relate to this ?


I use Ni when ...


When I on regual basis see the outcomes before they happen. Sometimes long before they happen.

When most of my life is spent on preparing for the future.

When I insist that I understand the whole picture. Past, present and future.

When I play with long term trends in order to realize where in space and time those trends will meet/clash.

When I am bothered by events that are vastly outside of my life span.

When I knew more about the universe at the age of 5 than the average person knows in adult age.

When all the time I have this though bubbles coming out of my unconciousness and offering me solutions that I couldn't figure on the spot.

When in a matter of seconds I determine the best path out of 30 scenarios. (xNxPs do not believe me regarding this).

When I redefine term or I am redefining terms based on circumstances. (If it is in position A than it has X effect but if it is in position B then it has Y effect). Si and Ti heavy users usually hate when I do this.)

When I get exausted from extensive brain usage even if from the outside it looks as if I am wasting time/resting.

When I can completely space out and ignore environment entirely.

When I completely take away the feeling of journey from people by defining the desired/probable outcome.

When my speech patterns and usage of words most people describe as "strange". Not wrong, just strange.

When people see me as the elder/prophet in the group and come to me for opinions on regular basis.

When I believe that everthing can be explained in more complex manner but there is just no enough time for that on regular basis.

When I am careful regarding safety becuse I have a mission to accomplish and I do not want to compromise it with pointless mistakes and stuff I don't really care about.

When people see me as very talented but very stubborn. (since they do not see what I see)

When I cut off details in order to make point of the story much more obvious.

When I make classification of scenarios of how the human history may end.

When I finish peoples sentences with great precision.

When I can see nothing but how to get from my current position to desired goals.

When I fantasise about having god like powers.

When I hide dark and morbid side of myself even if I like such things very much. Therefore giving the other people feeling that they know me well even if that is not really true.

When I am certain that the ends simply has to justify the means if progress were to be made.

When there are two parallel thinking processes in me, one is focused on environment in front of me and the other is focused on doing something completely unrelated to the current events.


Thoughts ?

I think you are meshing different functions together. Ends must justify means is Ti. And other Little things you said.

Anyway, basically this is intuition in its common sense, right?
 

Forever

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I think you are meshing different functions together. Ends must justify means is Ti. And other Little things you said.

Anyway, basically this is intuition in its common sense, right?

Edit: Actually never mind confusion in what you were saying.
 

SearchingforPeace

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How did this thread not have this clip already?
 

Virtual ghost

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I think you are meshing different functions together. Ends must justify means is Ti. And other Little things you said.

Anyway, basically this is intuition in its common sense, right?


Thread is about how one sees the functions.

But to be honest I haven't see many TPs that are very into goal oriented work. "the end justifies the means" is more like Ni or Si confirmed by Te-Fi judgment.
 

JocktheMotie

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TPs might be more "ends justify the means" from an ethical perspective (Fe, I know I am) than from a systems/process perspective( Ti).

Creating hideous and "unpretty" but workable code hurts my soul, but I will absolutely break every rule imaginable to get the most/best slices of pizza at the work party.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Ni. I love Ni. It is amazing, not mystical. Though it might seem mystical on the outside.

I don't know what the Ni Te combo looks like. Talking with my ENTJ friend and my ENTJ BIL really make is sound very different about how that combo works. Of course, both are great in business, organizing, delegating, etc. One is an entrepreneur with a greatly expanding workforce and the other is the youngest manager ever in his position for a major multinational corporation and likely be in corporate management relatively quickly. I can talk with them, and we relate very well together, but what they see and do is just very different than how I role. That isn't a bad thing at all, of course, but the Te & Ni show just plays a very different tune than the Fe & Ni show.

So, what is Ni to me? As a child, it meant a hunger. I devoured information nonstop. I needed to feed Ni to give it info to add to its grand understanding. Now, being it is Ni & Fe not Ni & Te, it isn't some neat and easily explained Te structure here. It is messy and complex and deep and I will try to give it an adequate description.

Ni is knowing a 80 to 90% understanding of something without effort, which is an adequate understanding level for my Fe to act on. Errors are OK in most cases, because it usually isn't worth the effort to get to 100% accuracy, especially because we can almost never know the complete information to judge anyway.

Here is an Ni example from my life:

A few years ago, I joined a project for work, which almost every other person had been on for a year. Everyone on the project was smart. All had a graduate degree and experience in the field. As I chatted with them all, I learned that some were truly brilliant people, others just moderately smart, but still smart folks.

For me, I quickly saw the entire picture come together within days. A month later I was promoted. The project manger said I was the only one she had confidence in and made me the lead person on the project, no matter I had barely been on the project and they had been on for a year and more.

A few months later, one of the people who had been on for a year before me, who I knew to be a very intelligent person, had a "A-ha" moment and finally understand a very small part of the matter. I was shocked. His insight was something I had experience after a few days.

This story is largely typical in my experience. I just see things, the deeper meaning and understanding, so quick, as Ni and Fe work together in a magnificent whole.

Now, I can rarely explain the reasoning that got me to my understanding. That takes a little longer to get there, but the vision pops in.

Ni is very willing to reassess the vision in light of new information. But it is not always a quick process.

And for me, since, Ni is in service of Fe, Ni does not get to call the shots. It seems that Fe does not let it have free reign. Instead, Ni needs to sneak in an insight at times, like a shift kick to my backside, to get Fe to accept that things have changed. This radical reshaping can be painful, especially when it takes a core understanding and replaces it with something new. The more central the new concept is to the core, the more difficult it is to accept. But eventually, it will settle down into an whole.

So, does Ni narrow perspective, especially in relationships, Amargith suggested in another thread recently? I don't feel it does for NJs, but it might for SPs. I take in new information, run in through Ni and it slaps in a new conception and understanding. This is usually a pretty fast process for me, but not necessarily so. It does come to a single giant idea, but Se is constantly bringing in new information and the singular conception is not static.

For SPs, it might be different, so I do not know if I can speak for them and maybe an SP can address this issue.
 

Poki

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Being dom Ti my Ni and Se work in tandem...I know the stupid function and the genius function :rolleyes: but Ni connects the dots and Se scours everything for information. Ti is the judgement function that filters things out in all the shades of grey and makes sense of it all. Basically I use it like a prefilter...it actually takes a back seat in regard to useful info due to it being used as a prefilter. It basically says...hey...look at which point Ti takes over and processes it. It usually has good pattern matching ability, but I still have to use Ti to determine how the pattern matches. If I am filtering for stuff and Ni says blue is a pattern, Ti takes over and says..yeah, we got it already, next. It's not the end, but a tool used to reach the end. What's the end...the truth...reality...solutions....understanding.

When trying to figure something out I do this for hours on end. Almost like on TV when the robots or aliens flip through books. I flip through life drawing connections, pulling in data and processing it. Ni is more the understanding combined with pattern matching prefilter for me.

For me Ni doesn't tell me what's going to happen as others seem to say...I control my environment to much so more then likely unless what Ni sees is what I want Ni will never be correct as I use it to change paths, I don't always stick with the Ni path enough to actually say it's right or wrong. I don't care whether what I saw was right...more care about reaching what I want. So I donto have the Ni is correct attitude as I am constantly learning and adapting using Ni asays part of the whole to accomplish what Ti says.
 

Virtual ghost

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Being dom Ti my Ni and Se work in tandem...I know the stupid function and the genius function :rolleyes: but Ni connects the dots and Se scours everything for information. Ti is the judgement function that filters things out in all the shades of grey and makes sense of it all. Basically I use it like a prefilter...it actually takes a back seat in regard to useful info due to it being used as a prefilter. It basically says...hey...look at which point Ti takes over and processes it. It usually has good pattern matching ability, but I still have to use Ti to determine how the pattern matches. If I am filtering for stuff and Ni says blue is a pattern, Ti takes over and says..yeah, we got it already, next. It's not the end, but a tool used to reach the end. What's the end...the truth...reality...solutions....understanding.

When trying to figure something out I do this for hours on end. Almost like on TV when the robots or aliens flip through books. I flip through life drawing connections, pulling in data and processing it. Ni is more the understanding combined with pattern matching prefilter for me.

For me Ni doesn't tell me what's going to happen as others seem to say...I control my environment to much so more then likely unless what Ni sees is what I want Ni will never be correct as I use it to change paths, I don't always stick with the Ni path enough to actually say it's right or wrong. I don't care whether what I saw was right...more care about reaching what I want. So I donto have the Ni is correct attitude as I am constantly learning and adapting using Ni asays part of the whole to accomplish what Ti says.


This sounds alot like situations where is just too much unknown in the physical world and therfore I go into Se/Ni mode with minimal judgemet in order to realize with what I am dealing with.
 

Poki

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This sounds alot like situations where is just too much unknown in the physical world and therfore I go into Se/Ni mode with minimal judgemet in order to realize with what I am dealing with.

I live in the unkown so I can learn it. I tend to get bored of the known, It's like I have nothing to do.
 
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