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Thread: STs and SFs

  1. #11
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    There are 16 possible combination of the 4 letters (4^2). Each group can be quatrichotomized and described.
    Wow even FDG has returned. Now if Rocky shows up this will be a party..... except when are you going to return to your rightful place as ESTP?

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    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    because keirsey is stupid.

    if anything, the temperaments should be EJ, EP, IJ, IP. or maybe TJ, TP, FJ, FP.

    the whole guardian, rational, idealist, artisan thing just leads to stereotyping.
    I don't consider him stupid as much as I think that he may overstepped his boundaries attempting to correlate it with Myers-Briggs. It's temperament and as such he has good information regarding core values of the groups. However again Berens continues to work out the kinks to where both schools do merge.

  3. #13
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    because keirsey is stupid.

    if anything, the temperaments should be EJ, EP, IJ, IP. or maybe TJ, TP, FJ, FP.

    the whole guardian, rational, idealist, artisan thing just leads to stereotyping.
    What a massive overstatement. It can also (and has with me and many others) led to more understanding and communication in relationships, even among people who would never take the time to read about "cognitive processes."
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  4. #14
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    LOL "Keirsey is stupid." Crikey! I can't even hold a discussion if someone starts off like that.

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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    When you say S types and judging, I am assuming that you mean Si types? Clearly descriptions for ISPs has the same flavor as that of ESPs from his descriptions. Look at the depiction of Keirsey on ISTP and ISFP:Now compare this with his thoughts on types having identical dominant functions, but differing auxiliary functions. He seems to give way too much credence to the secondary function:Again he shows a great imbalance in intuitive types being able to use their dominant function, but SPs being ruled by their auxiliary.
    Yeah, I was in such a rush to find the generalization. You're right that for SP's the descriptions focus on the Se. (I think it was the SJ's that were distinguished by the Judging functions). But Se is dominant for ESP, and aux. for ISP.
    For the INTP, it is Ti characteristics that stand out, and in the section of the INFJ you quoted, you see the Fe, but I think later on, you do get a reference to Ni. That seems to be the way it was for the NF's.
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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    The funniest part is that the description of INTP is totally bogus!!

    In another forum, Vicky Jo mentioned that she's NEVER seen Linda Berens debating, ever. And that definately matches my experience of INTPs. Reading that description, I keep thinking "no wonder so many INTJs think that they're INTPs".

    "And in any serious discussion or debate Architects are devastating, their skill in framing arguments giving them an enormous advantage"

    ...what a crock.
    Well, according to her, (as well as your PM's), INTJ's aren't like that either! Who is, then? Only Feeling types?

    Berens is one person, and since she is a teacher and professional, and running this as a business with all the conferences, lectures, etc. all over the country, who is she going to be debating with?
    I'm sure if someone challenges her, and the person is talking "nonsense" as the quote says, she will at least have the ability to be "devastating", in pointing out the errors. (And again, the time limitation, etc). VJ once said something about learning something "the hard way" from Berens (in conjunction with correcting me about the way I was using the terms "directing" and "informing" --as nouns ending in "-ive", back then), and I wish I remembered that when she said Berens never debates or anything like that.
    The Hass+Hunziker description of "INTP language" also mentions them pausing and appearing to waffle in speach.

    I also think John Kerry was an INTP. (he APPEARED to waffle, and the republicans took advantage of that).
    I don't deny that, but I would think it depends on the topic. If it's a subject of their expertise, and they're more confident about it, then they probably won't waffle as much. In writing, they don't seem to, and that's probably where they would be the most able to debate.
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    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I don't consider him stupid as much as I think that he may overstepped his boundaries attempting to correlate it with Myers-Briggs. It's temperament and as such he has good information regarding core values of the groups. However again Berens continues to work out the kinks to where both schools do merge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    What a massive overstatement. It can also (and has with me and many others) led to more understanding and communication in relationships, even among people who would never take the time to read about "cognitive processes."
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    LOL "Keirsey is stupid." Crikey! I can't even hold a discussion if someone starts off like that.
    i admit that his theories correlate to the truth. there are two problems, though:
    1) he can't account for people on the border between temperaments (like me for example, lol). this will lead to putting people in boxes that they don't actually fit into.
    2) his temperaments are not parallel, which is totally misleading. for example, ISFP and INFP are much more similar than ISFP and ISTP, but he groups the SPs together.

    yes, some people who would not delve into the functions will gain some insight. but some of those some will get FALSE insight. allllllll bad.

    listen, i learned about MBTI by reading his book. it took me months and months to UNLEARN the inconsistencies. i would rather have not even been exposed to his ideas.

  8. #18
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    listen, i learned about MBTI by reading his book. it took me months and months to UNLEARN the inconsistencies. i would rather have not even been exposed to his ideas.
    Preach, brotha'!
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  9. #19
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    because keirsey is stupid.

    if anything, the temperaments should be EJ, EP, IJ, IP. or maybe TJ, TP, FJ, FP.

    the whole guardian, rational, idealist, artisan thing just leads to stereotyping.
    explain...
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    listen, i learned about MBTI by reading his book. it took me months and months to UNLEARN the inconsistencies. i would rather have not even been exposed to his ideas.
    And I wish Keirsey had been first so "Function theory" would never have gotten so widespread. I disagree with a lot of MBTI and very little Keirsey. To each his own.

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