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Thread: Loneliness

  1. #31
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Friendship is simply just a tool that people use when they're too lazy to think for themselves. When I see people go to other people for advice, I feel repulsed. It's sickening to see people lose their individuality like that.

    The sad part, though, is that a lot of these people consider themselves individualists, but how is that possible? You lose your individuality right when you connect with another, and thus, you are not one person anymore, but a member of the flock.

    I suppose friendship is valid if it's used for a strategic purpose, such as career advancement, but beyond that, there really is no point.
    This also disgusts me, when people can't use their own reasoning, but..friends are not useless. At least not to me. I need love that doesn't include mating.

    I'm happy with the friends I have and people I know, but whenever I'm not being immersed in social activity, I get this weird empty feeling, like there must be something more. But I don't know to what. As an ENFP, I'm completely satisfied with life, and I think it and the world is wonderful, but sometimes I wish I could...BECOME emotion. I dunno. The vrey thought of this is kind of weird. I've gotten this feeling ever since my first hamster died a few years ago.

    ..Maybe it's just puberty.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    This may segue into another thread, but once I realize I've been designated as a strategic asset or tactical pawn by someone I considered to be a friend, I will disengage from the friendship relationship and restructure it as a business relationship.
    Well, that's kind of what I meant -- a business relationship. But beyond that, friendship is ultimately pointless.

    I know that loneliness is caused by lack of close relationships, but it is best to repress these feelings, because acting out on loneliness and seeking connections is a form of cowardice that should be avoided in the same way as acting out on sexual desires.

    Whenever I come across someone who tries to get close to me, I have to avoid him/her, because in all probability, (A) he/she finds me useful in someway and intends to take advantage of me or (B) he/she is desperate in seeking out connections, and in the case of B, the person should just kill themselves for being so insecure.

    Theoretically, I find nothing wrong with someone using others for a strategic purpose, because it's ultimately the other person's fault for letting that someone take advantage of them. But I, on the other hand, am careful in not letting people control me.

    And besides, aren't NTs supposed to be detach themselves from emotion?

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Friendship is simply just a tool that people use when they're too lazy to think for themselves. When I see people go to other people for advice, I feel repulsed. It's sickening to see people lose their individuality like that.

    The sad part, though, is that a lot of these people consider themselves individualists, but how is that possible? You lose your individuality right when you connect with another, and thus, you are not one person anymore, but a member of the flock.

    I suppose friendship is valid if it's used for a strategic purpose, such as career advancement, but beyond that, there really is no point.

    I find that a bit sad - if you aren't exaggerating here. If you aren't, I think you'll change your mind as you grow up. Believe it or not, you can learn from others without losing your individuality.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayshaun View Post
    Interesting. I thought a majority of people felt lonely no matter what and was wrong.

    The loneliness I feel has nothing to do with boredom. I like being alone and am rarely bored. Books, Internet, exercise and other mediums are largely satisfactory. I actually feel the loneliness at its strongest when with company.

    No, the loneliness I'm talking about is quite similar to the one Jennifer and to a certain extent meanlittlechimp and Usehername expressed. It's the feeling that I cannot connect on a deep level with any person. The feeling that even with closest friends and family members there is something alien about me. It's somehow rooted in existential angst: despairingly not finding any meaning in the lives people around me lead that inspires me. I am probing for a path and I feel very lonely when realizing how incompatible I seem to be with everybody else's world (including INTPs). Although the phrase might sound silly and too "all-encompassing", my loneliness is both vis-a-vis the world at large and individuals. I wonder if this exile is self-imposed because of a difficulty to "open up" or part of my nature. Some kind of narcissism?
    This reminds me of an Orson Welles quote: We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.

    I actually relate a lot to what you're describing. A pervasive feeling of lonliness both in company and in solitude.
    Last edited by Entropy; 08-31-2007 at 12:15 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Well, that's kind of what I meant -- a business relationship. But beyond that, friendship is ultimately pointless.

    I know that loneliness is caused by lack of close relationships, but it is best to repress these feelings, because acting out on loneliness and seeking connections is a form of cowardice that should be avoided in the same way as acting out on sexual desires.

    Whenever I come across someone who tries to get close to me, I have to avoid him/her, because in all probability, (A) he/she finds me useful in someway and intends to take advantage of me or (B) he/she is desperate in seeking out connections, and in the case of B, the person should just kill themselves for being so insecure.

    Theoretically, I find nothing wrong with someone using others for a strategic purpose, because it's ultimately the other person's fault for letting that someone take advantage of them. But I, on the other hand, am careful in not letting people control me.

    And besides, aren't NTs supposed to be detach themselves from emotion?
    What do you view is the purpose of life? I've encountered this issue before; we discovered that we saw differently due to how we saw human life.

    I think humans are relational by nature; we're meant to be in relationships. I think we're all unique, and surely this looks different in every situation, but I believe that I'm a deeper, more substantial, more intelligent, more caring, more genuine human being when I'm a part of satisfying relationships (and I'm not referring to romantic ones, but they certainly count).

    These views are what I've deduced in my 20 years on this earth. But to note our differences, I am a) female and b) a Christian. Which probably explains our differences.

    Regardless, you don't think it's a part of human nature to connect with others? What do you want out of life?
    I mean that very deeply and seriously: what do you want? Because to be honest, maybe my Ni is just currently non-functional... but the worlds I imagine without soulful connections are just superficial and nothing I want to associate myself with.

    Maybe you don't feel the need to connect with others. I am not out to say you should, if you don't. But I'm pretty sure it's pretty rare to not feel the need to connect with other humans. It's deeply ingrained in me. I don't need quantity so much as quality.

    But I do think that it's more likely you
    a) were hurt by someone who rejected you/put you down/degraded you that you had trusted before and you've decided to learn from that error
    or
    b)your need to be seen as autonomous and independent (from your original nature-driven aspect, and on top of that, your reading and self-identification with the INTJ descriptions which only reinforce that) outweighs your currently-surpressed desire to connect

    So, certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't feel the need to connect with others, you're either a) in self-preservation mode or b) immaturely rejecting this need.


    But maybe I'm wrong. Do let me know.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #36
    Senior Member Cerpin_Taxt's Avatar
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    I recognized my loneliness(existenial) at a young age, and tried to fill it with novelty and shallow companionship for about 10 years. At 15 I realized that my/our lonliness had it's origin in a much deeper void -- I've been ready Sartre recently, so sorry for the pretentious tone -- and was miserable for about a year. I then slipped back into a mode of Novelty and slightly more rewarding companionship.

    Recently however I have recalled my orignal revelation: that no matter how close I get to other's, there will always be a large part of me that will be separate from them -- and possibly from myself.

    So for the time being I guess I'm resolved to a life of lonliness, whatever brief connections I can make with others I'll take, but I dont think this emptiness will go away anytime soon.

    And loneliness isn't the same as boredem. I'm very rarley bored -- theres to many books to read, knowledge to absorb -- and enjoy my own company immensely.

    Well i'm gonna go wallow in my own self pity, so you know, wank.
    Last edited by Cerpin_Taxt; 06-14-2007 at 02:26 AM. Reason: messy

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayshaun View Post
    Interesting. I thought a majority of people felt lonely no matter what and was wrong.

    The loneliness I feel has nothing to do with boredom. I like being alone and am rarely bored. Books, Internet, exercise and other mediums are largely satisfactory. I actually feel the loneliness at its strongest when with company.

    No, the loneliness I'm talking about is quite similar to the one Jennifer and to a certain extent meanlittlechimp and Usehername expressed. It's the feeling that I cannot connect on a deep level with any person. The feeling that even with closest friends and family members there is something alien about me. It's somehow rooted in existential angst: despairingly not finding any meaning in the lives people around me lead that inspires me. I am probing for a path and I feel very lonely when realizing how incompatible I seem to be with everybody else's world (including INTPs). Although the phrase might sound silly and too "all-encompassing", my loneliness is both vis-a-vis the world at large and individuals. I wonder if this exile is self-imposed because of a difficulty to "open up" or part of my nature. Some kind of narcissism?
    hm. Maybe you have just never experienced emotional intimacy?

    I have a few people in my life who I think in some ways know me better than I know myself. I don't actually even need to speak to these people often, maybe I'm not even in touch with some, wouldn't say I miss them much- but I suppose it is knowing they are around in the world and that such bondy experiences are possible, however fleeting sometimes- I suppose this is much of why I so rarely experience loneliness.

    Maybe it is also about underlying expectations/ attitudes too. I know deep connections are possible and so I expect to encounter them and do, don't necessarily expect permanence or repetition, and so then can kind of appreciate the superficial encounters more too.

    Also I think some years back I arrived at a kind of emotional acceptance/ embracing of it all being a fundamentally solitary journey, and am now apt to somehow err on the side of delighting about this. Sometimes even when I am very much engaged and enjoying the company of another(s), I can get kind of jealous of my own time with myself. That probably sounds kind of twisted, but there it is.


    As far as not opening up- I wunno, but um, yes, one has to put one's more private self out there to be acknowledged/ understood/ appreciated for these things, right. The most sekrat scary unlovable (you think) shit even.

  8. #38
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    These conversations are tempting me to break into Tom Jones.

    For years, I didn't believe myself to be strongly independent, assuming that if I were, sovereignty would be foremost in the mind -- until I realized that I was, and preferred remaining, in many ways apart from those with whom I associate.

    I don't know if "connection" with another is necessary, or if desiring it is wise. There is much to be enjoyed from people, however different they are from me. At this point, I would rather simply relate; interact.

  9. #39
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    I used to feel lonely all the time, was a defining sorta factor of my life. But in the last few years my life's dramatically changed for the better, and I don't feel lonely any more. It's not about how many people you know or how often you see them or how many things they know about you. It's about connection - I think perhaps NF's are more aware of their need for this than NT's and so many notice its absence more keenly, more constantly, or be more bothered by it and stirred to doing something about it. But for me, the fact that I now know several people I can comfortably be silent with, with whom I don't have to 'try', or fear misunderstanding - people to whom I can transmit entire trains of thought with a second of eye contact, and who I know are always pleased to see me - or if they're not, it's not personal but practical. And I know there are hundreds of people around the world, even people I've never met, who are praying for me personally, by name, every day, which is not nothing.

    I do know though, an awful lot of people who I can 'see' this awful loneliness in them. I've tended to reach out to these people, and sometimes it's worked and their loneliness has gone, too. It doesn't always work, because a lot of people push you away when you reach out to them, and it can be hurtful when it's basically because they've quickly judged you as not worthy of them - or that's what they tell themselves, though I think it's actually the other way round - they think they're not worthy of you, or anyone, and would rather stay lonely than take risks and make efforts not to.

    I've talked on the other forum about the various factors that were part of this change in my life, so I don't want to repeat anything here, not least cos I just haven't the time right now
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0532 View Post
    ...Maybe it is also about underlying expectations/ attitudes too. I know deep connections are possible and so I expect to encounter them and do, don't necessarily expect permanence or repetition, and so then can kind of appreciate the superficial encounters more too.

    Also I think some years back I arrived at a kind of emotional acceptance/ embracing of it all being a fundamentally solitary journey, and am now apt to somehow err on the side of delighting about this...
    Hmmm, maybe that is part of it. I experienced a lot of loneliness when younger, then spent a lot of time learning how to open up and reach out, then eventually reached another spot where I realized the gulf was ultimately impossible to completely bridge. All of us are still ultimately separate and trying to reach across the gap and touch each other in real ways... and yet always the gap remains.

    This is rather crushing to idealism and hard to accept.

    I suppose now I would be in that place where I am trying to learn how to accept this and be content with it. I know that it has made what intimacy I experience with others even sweeter, since I know how rare and special it is to simply have someone want to reach in some way into my world and being allowed to reach somehow into theirs.

    As far as not opening up- I wunno, but um, yes, one has to put one's more private self out there to be acknowledged/ understood/ appreciated for these things, right. The most sekrat scary unlovable (you think) shit even.
    <smile> yes.

    At least as one gets older, the fear seems to diminish some... or at least the risk doesn't seem as large. (At that point, you've lost some things already and survived, you recognize that life simply involves a lot of "letting go," and that to get anything demands letting go of what you had previously, so why fear the disclosure as much?)
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