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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Fi - "good" or "bad" based on personal opinion
    Fe - "good" or "bad" based on external evidence

    every time someone says "good" or "bad" or "evil" or "chill" or "sweet" or "lame" or anything like that, they're using a feeling function.

    all the rest of the hypotheses listed in the OP actually refer to intuition.

    also, feeling is by definition a conscious function. if it's unconscious, it's S or N.
    By using the word "evidence", you are implying that Fe uses hard facts more often than Fi in coming to a feeling judgment. I disagree.

  2. #22
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    also, feeling is by definition a conscious function. if it's unconscious, it's S or N.
    Whose definition is that?
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, thinking types do seem to view logic (and logical things) as agreeable, and illogic as disagreeable.
    Of course they do. That's because all Thinking types still possess Feeling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It seem to get more tricky when we add the two attitudes to the Thinking and Feeling judgments. Does a person who prefers Ti-Fe ("true or false" based on personal opinion; "good or bad" based on external evidence) never have personal preferences like enjoying a sunny day? (and the "factual conclusion" would be more Te). This is why I think there is a realm of "basic survival instinct" that is universal to everyone, and separate from T/F-e/i preference.
    And again, of course a Ti-Fe person has self-derived Feelings. Every human being possesses and uses all processes. Are we clear on that? It's just that the strength of each process varies from person to person. Some with very high Fe and very low Fi still has self-derived values, because a human wouldn't function without them, but when compared to most people, this person would have an unusually high tendency to let their own values get lost among the values of others.

    It's never so absolute. It's all about degrees.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    By using the word "evidence", you are implying that Fe uses hard facts more often than Fi in coming to a feeling judgment. I disagree.
    extroverted judgment refers to external data by definition. introverted refers to current internal state, so current thought processes, conscious or unconscious.

    "hard facts" is extroversion's realm...

    it's not that Fi users don't use hard facts...it's just that their Fi isn't doing that work. Te is.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Whose definition is that?
    carl jung's

  5. #25
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    carl jung's
    Can you provide a quotation or citation? Thanks.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #26
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Okay, let me say what I seem to have figured it out about Feelers.

    After a particularly bad outcome, a T will try to see what led up to the disaster. They see what happened, all the unavoidable events, and be upset by that. An F will think that there's more to it. For example, an F friend asked me once, "Why have people evolved to know that they will die?" when the first place my mind went was, 'well, wouldn't they have figured it out eventually?'

    It's not that Fs and Ts can't come to the same conclusion. It just seems that Fs go from personal ---> impersonal in their thinking while Ts go impersonal --> personal.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think a very important point has to be made that the thread asks what Feeling is, not what Feelers are. They are really two very different things.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #28
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Of course they do. That's because all Thinking types still possess Feeling.

    And again, of course a Ti-Fe person has self-derived Feelings. Every human being possesses and uses all processes. Are we clear on that? It's just that the strength of each process varies from person to person. Some with very high Fe and very low Fi still has self-derived values, because a human wouldn't function without them, but when compared to most people, this person would have an unusually high tendency to let their own values get lost among the values of others.

    It's never so absolute. It's all about degrees.
    I know. It's just that when we get into shadow theory descriptions; it is sometimes made to appear that the only time those functions are used is under stress, or brief moments of positive use (Such as "discovery", "laughing at onesself" or "transforming a situation"). Stuff like enjoying a sunny day, and other things like aesthetic appreciation would seem to transcend those categories, so I have to wonder if that ideas is even allowed in the theory, from the somewhat narrow descriptions I usually see.
    Last edited by Eric B; 08-31-2008 at 09:14 PM.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Okay, let me say what I seem to have figured it out about Feelers.

    After a particularly bad outcome, a T will try to see what led up to the disaster. They see what happened, all the unavoidable events, and be upset by that. An F will think that there's more to it. For example, an F friend asked me once, "Why have people evolved to know that they will die?" when the first place my mind went was, 'well, wouldn't they have figured it out eventually?'

    It's not that Fs and Ts can't come to the same conclusion. It just seems that Fs go from personal ---> impersonal in their thinking while Ts go impersonal --> personal.
    Very concise and interesting observation, Hap. I really like your contributions. I usually don't comment on them because they usually seem so self-sufficient and self-contained.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    X2

    Two value judgments that continually crash, I know I've learned to sort of extend my decisions a few seconds so I can really get more on the personal end of the continuum. Impersonal/personal analysis is really evident when dealing with a large scale issue like a big businesses actions, for example auto makers decisions to recall parts or models due to accidents or defects.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

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