I versus E: It's not how much you talk, but how you talk.

[Brendan]

Recently, several managers from my store went to a national conference for managers of our particular retail chain. Part of the conference involved group activities based upon MBTI. Our store has four assistant managers and a general manager. Two assistant managers are ENTJ, one ESFJ and one INFP. The general manager is an INTJ.

Oh, how I love my job

Being that I'm fairly close with my managers, I was shown the personalized type descriptions they received at the conference. Something struck me. Introvertism and extravertism are not based upon how much you talk.

I've wondered about this before. There is no doubting the fact that I am an extravert, yet it's struck me several times that I communicate easily less than 1% of what goes through my head. How could I verbalize any more? My thoughts and synapses move incalculably faster than my interpersonal communication can, to the point that stumbling over my words when I speak is a more than regular occurance, and I am no simpleton. This seems obvious now that I verbalize it, which brings me to the point:

The biggest indication of an extravert is not how much they talk, but how much they "think out loud." An introvert will come to a conclusion and then express it, while an extravert is prone to changing their minds mid-sentence. "Putting it out there" for an extravert is comparable to taking a shuffled deck of cards and placing them all face up on a flat surface, making their organization quick and easy.

Thoughts?

 

[Usehername]

I like your theory.

Though I do think extreme E and I will hold to the old theory. I'm also pretty sure I've read this idea somewhere before.

 

[Domino]

Canada will assimilate us all and make this moot, Brendan.

 

[Usehername]

Canada will assimilate us all and make this moot, Brendan.

Your fascination with my homeland makes no sense. It has actually kept me up at night trying to figure out why it makes it into such a large proportion of your jokes. Is it a political theory you're waiting a few decades to see play itself out? Do you wish you were Canadian? Do we Canucks have some sort of je ne c'est quoi that allures you? Do we all have some communal handicap that you can see and we can't? Was this a joke that got a lot of laughs that you keep using because it works, and every time you use it it's funnier because of this reason?

I somehow am amused by it but my inherent xxTxness makes for many a as I fail in my attempts to completely understand your actions.

 

[animenagai]

i don't know if i can speak for all the extroverts out there, but i definitely think out loud. during class discussions and such, i find myself always going 'so therefore x is true. though i guess you can make a case for y since...'.

i say what i'm thinking a lot of times even when there's no body else to talk to. time after time i find myself with my headphones on, reading stuff on the computer thinking that no one else is there. my sister will walk in without me knowing and do her own thing. since i don't know she's there i'm not afraid of what other people think of me so i think aloud. then i hear someone yelling 'stop speaking to yourself!' and i crunch up half laughing at myself, half in shame. she does a very good impression of me doing this too . 'wait a moment, ashrfoajn asjhoasfnaos... but... NO! wait... WHAT? but ashrfljasjg and ashfjoiadjhg... *GASP!'

 

[Brendan]

Your fascination with my homeland makes no sense. It has actually kept me up at night trying to figure out why it makes it into such a large proportion of your jokes. Is it a political theory you're waiting a few decades to see play itself out? Do you wish you were Canadian? Do we Canucks have some sort of je ne c'est quoi that allures you? Do we all have some communal handicap that you can see and we can't? Was this a joke that got a lot of laughs that you keep using because it works, and every time you use it it's funnier because of this reason?

I somehow am amused by it but my inherent xxTxness makes for many a as I fail in my attempts to completely understand your actions.

It probably has more to do with the fact that poking fun at Canadians is something of an American pastime lolz.

 

[Domino]

Your fascination with my homeland makes no sense. It has actually kept me up at night trying to figure out why it makes it into such a large proportion of your jokes. Is it a political theory you're waiting a few decades to see play itself out? Do you wish you were Canadian? Do we Canucks have some sort of je ne c'est quoi that allures you? Do we all have some communal handicap that you can see and we can't? Was this a joke that got a lot of laughs that you keep using because it works, and every time you use it it's funnier because of this reason?

I somehow am amused by it but my inherent xxTxness makes for many a as I fail in my attempts to completely understand your actions.

See my blog!


Sorry for the derail, Brendan.

 

[EJCC]

Brendan is 100% right. There is no doubt about it whatsoever. I'm an E, but I'm kind of shy around people I don't know, and when I socialize for long periods of time for many days in a row, I feel the desperate need to be alone. But... when I talk, I talk without thinking a whole lot. I'll often bring up a point and have zero evidence in mind to back it up, and know it, and have to literally say "wait a sec, let me think" in order to make my point and (partially) regain my dignity. Plus, I've always known that I write more eloquently than I speak. I give your theory an A+

Now the train is back on track.

 

[Thursday]

valid theory.

 

[INTJMom]

...

The biggest indication of an extravert is not how much they talk, but how much they "think out loud." An introvert will come to a conclusion and then express it, while an extravert is prone to changing their minds mid-sentence. "Putting it out there" for an extravert is comparable to taking a shuffled deck of cards and placing them all face up on a flat surface, making their organization quick and easy.

Thoughts?

That's an interesting theory worth thinking about.

 

[entropie]

I think it is invalid, I do not think out loud, I give it time to think things through and I hold my position in a discussion. When I face new input, I take it into consideration and think it through.

I am overly enthusiastic though and do things without thinking first. But I do not change my conceptual thinking of a matter in the middle of a discussion. I rather try to see, if my concept still holds during and after the conversation. And I present it and watch how other's see it.

But I do not think out loud. Do not even know, how thinking could still work in such an approach. It contradicts the very meaning of the word "thinking" itself.

 

[Little Linguist]

I think it is invalid, I do not think out loud, I give it time to think things through and I hold my position in a discussion. When I face new input, I take it into consideration and think it through.

I am overly enthusiastic though and do things without thinking first. But I do not change my conceptual thinking of a matter in the middle of a discussion. I rather try to see, if my concept still holds during and after the conversation. And I present it and watch how other's see it.

But I do not think out loud. Do not even know, how thinking could still work in such an approach. It contradicts the very meaning of the word "thinking" itself.

Oh yay!!! Someone else who is enthusiastic!!! (i.e.: I'm not the only one in Germany who's like that!!!)

 

[entropie]

Yeah like: "well it is ten o clock in the morning and we have nothing to do. Let us do something unusual and new. Let us go to a bar."

My reaction: "yes, I am so in, lets go, I go in, you come after I order 5 beer for us, alright!" xD

*5 minutes later*

"Where is entropie?" - "Look there he lies drunken between those chairs" xDD

 

[Little Linguist]

Yeah like: "well it is ten o clock in the morning and we have nothing to do. Let us do something unusual and new. Let us go to a bar."

My reaction: "yes, I am so in, lets go, I go in, you come after I order 5 beer for us, alright!" xD

*5 minutes later*

"Where is entropie?" - "Look there he lies drunken between those chairs" xDD

OH MANNNNN!!! You drink more than any guy I know!!!! And we BOTH live in Germany, dude. (Oops, did I say that out loud, DOH! )

 

[entropie]

xDD
--
I want to refer again to haphazard's thread about energy and social extroversion at this point.
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/7393-introversion-versus-extroversion.html

I think E and I thinking styles depend on the facts presented in the thread aswell.

For if you have for example an inventor, who builds his own little gadgets. And who is pretty open minded towards his family, friends and anywhere seen as an extrovert. It is highly possible that his thinking is so specialized that he just can not communicate it to other persons in a discussion and change his views while discussing. Cauze his way of reasoning and interpreting is produced out of a form of a own personal created world, like an introvert that only he himself would understand.

Not that I know anything bout that

 

[Little Linguist]

xDD
--
I want to refer again to haphazard's thread about energy and social extroversion at this point.
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/7393-introversion-versus-extroversion.html

I think E and I thinking styles depend on the facts presented in the thread aswell.

For if you have for example an inventor, who builds his own little gadgets. And who is pretty open minded towards his family, friends and anywhere seen as an extrovert. It is highly possible that his thinking is so specialized that he just can not communicate it to other persons in a discussion and change his views while discussing. Cauze his way of reasoning and interpreting is produced out of a form of a own personal created world, like an introvert that only he himself would understand.

Not that I know anything bout that

Well, if it is that specialized, no one WOULD understand, which sort of forces you to be quiet...not introverted....

 

[entropie]

I tend to categorize the process in 3 steps.

The first is madmen input gathering. Your mind boils over from ideas. You see in every corner, direction, human reaction meaning and possibilities, ideas togenerate new insights.
That phase mainly prevails and lets you appear in society as an unstable element that is about to fall apart.

The second phase is purely introverted. It means cutting off any connections to the real world. You go deep into thoughts and sort things out for you. That phase mainly I have before falling asleep. I enjoy silence and harmony in those phase. Like to listen to classical music for falling asleep. At this point you draw connections and see what of those ideas are useful and what not.

And the third phase, which is the toughest, is to understand how another human being thinks and feels and how you can present him the newest information you gathered. Those new information are by then not fragmented, they are presented in a conceptual framework.

I am actually most of the time in phase 3, but this will change again. It is all about how you feel and what crazy idea you are persuading.

 

[INTJMom]

I think it is invalid, I do not think out loud, I give it time to think things through and I hold my position in a discussion. When I face new input, I take it into consideration and think it through.

I am overly enthusiastic though and do things without thinking first. But I do not change my conceptual thinking of a matter in the middle of a discussion. I rather try to see, if my concept still holds during and after the conversation. And I present it and watch how other's see it.

But I do not think out loud. Do not even know, how thinking could still work in such an approach. It contradicts the very meaning of the word "thinking" itself.

If you don't mind me asking, how sure are you that you're actually an "E"?

 

[entropie]

, logical question.

Well this was a longtime quest for myself and haphazard gave me with her thread finally the answers to solve that puzzle. I posted a link to it some posts above.

What I am talking about with you here, is very introvert in many ways I admit. But that is because I can not do it in real life. And because I can not do it in real life, I had a hard time thinking that I am an E, because my social network is huge, but I communicate with most people in a business style to have relations.

One of my talents is to build up those relations and to find people and possibilities. In a party full of strangers, I never go home without having made one new connection at least. My best friend is estp and he is a real asset in that way. We make our deals and I am pretty sure, he and me will have a company together one day.

When I am here things are different. When I am here I can be who I want to be. All my live as a young boy I was in those "society critical" songs and I am still. I dont like those business things at all. I think it makes people sick and cold and dumb and needless. When I am here, things are different. I can be myself and talk without any fears what I think. Mostly because you are so far living away that you cant hurt me anyways .

I like to play the business game. I like the challenge and to find its limitations and mistakes. But I am no businessmen. I have sometimes ideas that have already led me to making money and this is what I would become in the long run.

When I would work for a soccer team, I would be the one, looking out for new talents for the own team.

Was that understandable ? @INTJMom

 

[INTJMom]

, logical question.

Well this was a longtime quest for myself and haphazard gave me with her thread finally the answers to solve that puzzle. I posted a link to it some posts above.

What I am talking about with you here, is very introvert in many ways I admit. But that is because I can not do it in real life. And because I can not do it in real life, I had a hard time thinking that I am an E, because my social network is huge, but I communicate with most people in a business style to have relations.

One of my talents is to build up those relations and to find people and possibilities. In a party full of strangers, I never go home without having made one new connection at least. My best friend is estp and he is a real asset in that way. We make our deals and I am pretty sure, he and me will have a company together one day.

When I am here things are different. When I am here I can be who I want to be. All my live as a young boy I was in those "society critical" songs and I am still. I dont like those business things at all. I think it makes people sick and cold and dumb and needless. When I am here, things are different. I can be myself and talk without any fears what I think. Mostly because you are so far living away that you cant hurt me anyways .

I like to play the business game. I like the challenge and to find its limitations and mistakes. But I am no businessmen. I have sometimes ideas that have already led me to making money and this is what I would become in the long run.

When I would work for a soccer team, I would be the one, looking out for new talents for the own team.

Was that understandable ? @INTJMom

The reason I asked is because you seem to reason a lot more like an INTP than an ENTP, but no one can make a judgment on that alone, especially since it appears that English might not be your first language.
I was just wondering how sure you are because you were using yourself as an example to nullify the theory.