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Thread: Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

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    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    Default Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

    okay, i've been reading a lot into what keirsey has said about your 'perfect match' in terms of MBTI types and i am intrigued. for those who don't know, it's matching your N/S function and flipping everything else. eg. pairing an ESTP with an ISFJ. at first i found the prospect of an ENFP being paired with an INTJ ridiculous, but the more i look into it, the more it makes sense. now i'm pretty much sold.

    problem is, these pairings at first glance look so different that it's hard to immediately find connections. so my plan is to look at a different pairing every few days and discuss it with you guys and see if we can find these connections.

    the one thing i want to stress with this thread is this: PLEASE TRY TO FIND REASONS IN SUPPORT OF A PAIRING AND NOT REASONS AGAINST IT. it's a given that keirsey may be wrong, however, given the nature of the beast we're dealing with i think it would be in our best interest to find reasons why they DO work, just because the connections are not obvious. if after all our efforts we cannot find a good reason for these pairings, fine, we can ridicule keirsey all we want. however, the last thing i want to do is to be blinded by first impressions and dismiss this theory/pairing when we haven't made our best efforts. i hope you all understand.

    okay, that's all the background talk i'm gonna give. let's just start with the first pairing. give me reasons why an ENFJ and an INTP will work well together. let's hear em. have fun with it

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    Mr. Blue Array entropie's Avatar
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    Do you have a good source about keirseys pairing types ?
    Progressive Trance
    Time will explain.
    ~Persuasion - by Jane Austen

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    It never seemed to me that Keirsey had enough observational data to make solid judgments on type dynamics, unlike socionics.

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    Plumage and Moult Array proteanmix's Avatar
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    Before I merge this, I'm going to give you a chance to tell me how it's any different from this thread:

    MBTI Type Matches and Compatibilty

    Because I have until midnight to reach my merges per day quota.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Do you have a good source about keirseys pairing types ?
    simply put, no. i try and read about this stuff and i get small references about keirsey's method, particularly when i read about specific types and their love life. the explanations are usually short and really just leaves you wondering. that's why i made this thread, and honestly, some of the stuff i get here is better than what a lot of the 'experts' say, apart from maybe the top dogs of the game like keirsey.

    i guess we can start with these short explanations. this is apparently from keirsey himself. still isn't very long though.

    The ENFJ, on the intuitive side, finds the INTP attractive. Now here is a splendid target for our catalyst, for beneath the cool, collected, detached, and doubting exterior lies an architect of buildings, machines, tools, operations, tactics, languages, mathematics, or whatever can be designed. If, that is, this latently capable designer can be "activated" or "brought out".
    here's the INTP side of the story:

    The INTP also has a second likely target to attract him: the ENFJ "pedagogue." What is a pedagogue? A catalyst of the growth process, someone who has that uncanny ability to "bring out" the other, to activate the differentiation or "unfolding" process in the learner. All NFs seem to have this capability in some degree and the accompanying desire to exercise it, but the ENFJ seems to have it in abundance. This relationship-the ENFJ-INTP-can be "deep and meaningful" for the former and anchoring in a charismatic way for the latter.
    sounds exactly the same to me :steam:. there must be more to the story than this. DISCUSS!

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    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Before I merge this, I'm going to give you a chance to tell me how it's any different from this thread:

    MBTI Type Matches and Compatibilty

    Because I have until midnight to reach my merges per day quota.
    i wanted to have more in depth conversations with each pairing. i think these are not simple issues to tackle and hence could take a bit of time/focus to sort through. it's too easy to get distracted with that other thread. it's good for general discussion but this is more specific.

    the other thread also talks about all the popular theories on relationships. i really don't want to talk about socionics and such. i want to focus on keirsey.

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    Senior Member Array Snail's Avatar
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    A relationship between an ENFJ and an INTP can work fine. My ex-boyfriend (an INTP) used to date an ENFJ, and they hardly ever fought. She was bubbly and resilient, and she was just different enough from him that he didn't feel such an urge to try to change her. He was constantly trying to break my F into a T because it was the only letter where we differed. I was "so close" to being just what he demanded. He was able to appreciate her as a unique individual instead of seeing her as a potential mirror image that just needed a bit of work. Her extraversion allowed him to safely retreat into his private world of books and theories because she took on all of the social responsibilities and any chores that involved interacting with people. When I was with him, my introversion made it difficult for me to offer him the same luxury. She liked the challenge of trying to gradually, patiently make him more ethical, and she had greater success at healing his misanthropic attitudes than I had because he respected her more for her assertiveness. The only reason they broke up was that he got bored with her. She wasn't intelligent enough for him, even though she was enthusiastic about trying to study things with him. Her intelligence would not necessarily be type-dependent, regardless of what the research says about an introvert being more likely to have a high IQ than an extravert, so I would have to say that it is possible for ENFJs and INTPs to be extremely successful. The ENFJ was crazy about the INTP and needed his rationality to balance her. Both gained something from the relationship.

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    Occasional Member Array Evan's Avatar
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    i don't think I/E is actually that important to this sort of pairing on a general level.

    so if we drop the I/E, the pairings are
    NTJ/NFP
    NFJ/NTP
    STJ/SFP
    SFJ/STP

    i think these make sense as the judging functions are the same, but the perceivings are different. and from my observations, the most conflict between people comes from different judging functions.

    i dated an ENTP, and it was great. we saw different things, but analyzed them the same way.

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    Senior Member Array Snail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    i don't think I/E is actually that important to this sort of pairing on a general level.

    so if we drop the I/E, the pairings are
    NTJ/NFP
    NFJ/NTP
    STJ/SFP
    SFJ/STP

    i think these make sense as the judging functions are the same, but the perceivings are different. and from my observations, the most conflict between people comes from different judging functions.

    i dated an ENTP, and it was great. we saw different things, but analyzed them the same way.

    I think the I/E thing can be very important to some people. I know an INFJ who will only consider other introverts. It is the most important quality she seeks in a mate. Also, the relationship I just mentioned worked partly because of the I/E difference, where the girl's extraversion made her assertive enough and social enough to be just what the introverted guy needed.

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    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    I think the I/E thing can be very important to some people. I know an INFJ who will only consider other introverts. It is the most important quality she seeks in a mate. Also, the relationship I just mentioned worked partly because of the I/E difference, where the girl's extraversion made her assertive enough and social enough to be just what the introverted guy needed.
    i agree. i think it could mean a lot. i think if i dated an extroverted chick i may find the overall bubbliness level too much to take. dating an introvert can be a nice contrast, given that you both respect these differences.

    anyways, i think there's a lot to be said about snail's observation on pushing your partner to be identical if you are similar. what keirsey's theory is saying is basically that opposites attract but you don't want to be so different that you can't communicate at all. makes sense i guess.

    more specifically on this pairing though, could it be that the INTP, despite being somewhat disconnected from society enjoy watching the ENFJ helping everyone? INTP's can be pessimistic due to their wanting to be 'realistic'. ENFJ's are typically still pretty bright so they can answer the INTP's questions with reason while being contrastingly positive at the same time. if this is true, i can see why the INTP could be attracted to the ENFJ.

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