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Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

Littlelostnf

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Apr 23, 2007
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ENFJ
explain!
i *abhor* physicality... i find anyone laying hands on me deeply violating and therefore don't do it myself... i had someone throw a drink in my face years ago and it was mortifying... upset me for days, just as much as if they'd hit me...

i've been known to yell but that's not the valley, that's just the shoulder... the valley is full of eerie stillness and cold and pared down almost robotic statements... most of the mid-range arguments are sharp tones, but perhaps not yelling... i yell with my sister, and maybe my mother... i have to be pretty mad...

that's me maxed out...

oh i used to throw things all the time... i managed to get the phone stuck in a wall once, kicked a door off it's track, broke a window... i haven't done any such thing for a very long time now because i get this sick feeling when i've 'harmed' something, inanimate objects, seeing the result of my intense anger... i don't hit people or animals... i don't throw things anymore... it was a really bad time and i was barely hanging on...

i come from a regrettably dark past and it's shaped me... in my natural state, i automatically want to believe in the goodness of humanity and in a good outcome...

Ooo robot...hmmm that is me when it's BAD.

I'm sorry you've had the dark things shape so much of your past...I hope the future is alot lighter and less of a burden. It's so important for people who love other people to have peace. They can contribute sooo much more that way.

I wish you peace.
 

Littlelostnf

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645
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ENFJ
Yeah, now you're getting into mind/soulmate territory.

Explain...please. It's interesting because we're not really in touch...and when we are it's about something intellectual..never never personal and I know I need to keep it that way but I sense he needs to keep it that way even more.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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You don't get to see the dark parts unless you're really special, like a romantic partner.

How is this INTP-specific? I'd say the same about myself and most other people would say the same I gather.

I'm no longer in the business of cracking nuts and pulling people out of their shells. I understand that people need time to get to know each other before opening the sensitive parts of themselves, but I get the feeling with lots of INTPs they aren't even aware of their emotions very well let alone the emotions of others. I feel like there would have to be some period of just waiting to see if they're going to cut and run or waiting to figure if I'm going to have lure them out. Oh, and I'm not very patient. :D Then I'd have to brace myself for the inevitable blind emotional groping and hope that the flower I planted grows into something spectacular when it's just as possible it won't.

IOW, I've never met an emotionally available INTP ready for a relationship, which doesn't mean they don't exist just that I haven't seen it.

Le sigh, I just feel the need to throw in I'm not bashing INTPs.
 

MacGuffin

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Explain...please. It's interesting because we're not really in touch...and when we are it's about something intellectual..never never personal and I know I need to keep it that way but I sense he needs to keep it that way even more.

He might not know how to keep the relationship on a healthy level for him. I didn't at first either.

How is this INTP-specific? I'd say the same about myself and most other people would say the same I gather.

I'm no longer in the business of cracking nuts and pulling people out of their shells. I understand that people need time to get to know each other before opening the sensitive parts of themselves, but I get the feeling with lots of INTPs they aren't even aware of their emotions very well let alone the emotions of others. I feel like there would have to be some period of just waiting to see if they're going to cut and run or waiting to figure if I'm going to have lure them out. Oh, and I'm not very patient. :D Then I'd have to brace myself for the inevitable blind emotional groping and hope that the flower I planted grows into something spectacular when it's just as possible it won't.

IOW, I've never met an emotionally available INTP ready for a relationship, which doesn't mean they don't exist just that I haven't seen it.

Le sigh, I just feel the need to throw in I'm not bashing INTPs.

With INTPs you'll get the emotions before they run them through the Ti filter. It's scary to do that with just anyone, so they hide them.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
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^INTPs are just big babies. "My poor feelings...waaaahhh."

/kidding :)
 

MacGuffin

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^INTPs are just big babies. "My poor feelings...waaaahhh."

You wanna know how I got these scars?

dark-knight-joker-knife.jpg
 

Littlelostnf

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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
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ENFJ
He might not know how to keep the relationship on a healthy level for him. I didn't at first either.

Ok so how do you do it now? I don't think with our history that he and I will ever be friends again...which is unfortunate. I really miss him, however, I think (I'm stressing that) he wanted to much of me without wanting all of me and the two can't be separated. I realized I could only go so far without losing more of me than I wanted to someone who didn't want it all...but he would be upset if I backed off..which I prob did clumsily I admit but I saw it needed to be done. Anyway...

How did you manage to keep "it" on a healthy level...I'm assuming you've got what a mindmate that isn't your mate? (Just don't answer if that's too personal)...apologize in advance if it is.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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With INTPs you'll get the emotions before they run them through the Ti filter. It's scary to do that with just anyone, so they hide them.

Yeah, that's scary and it's scary for most people.

Is an INTP capable of creating an emotional safe space for their partner to open up in the same way or is this dependent on the other partner just being out with it?

Because it's damn hard to put yourself out there like that as I'm sure you know. Who gets the luxury of making sure the coast is clear?
 

MacGuffin

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Ok so how do you do it now? I don't think with our history that he and I will ever be friends again...which is unfortunate. I really miss him, however, I think (I'm stressing that) he wanted to much of me without wanting all of me and the two can't be separated. I realized I could only go so far without losing more of me than I wanted to someone who didn't want it all...but he would be upset if I backed off..which I prob did clumsily I admit but I saw it needed to be done. Anyway...

How did you manage to keep "it" on a healthy level...I'm assuming you've got what a mindmate that isn't your mate? (Just don't answer if that's too personal)...apologize in advance if it is.

Realizing that some things are only ephemeral, and don't need to be acted upon.

The mindmate and I have no boundaries, intellectually. We can, and do discuss, anything. And that's where it remains. On the idea level.
 

MacGuffin

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Yeah, that's scary and it's scary for most people.

Is an INTP capable of creating an emotional safe space for their partner to open up in the same way or is this dependent on the other partner just being out with it?

Because it's damn hard to put yourself out there like that as I'm sure you know. Who gets the luxury of making sure the coast is clear?

Partners or mindmates, yes. For the non-immature INTPs, that is. For everyone else? Not so much.

The most important thing is for the INTP to feel safe expressing their inner-most thoughts. Esp. when those thoughts can be abhorrent to the other person. As they will be, because INTPs think of the worst things.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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You don't get to see the dark parts unless you're really special, like a romantic partner.

i agree w/ protean, it's not type specific imo.

I call that "physical".

physicality is transference to another human... i opted to put a hole in a wall rather do something unforgivable which in my mind is harming another person and losing my restraint...

in 'wuthering heights', ellen the maid describes catherine as being a wayward, quarrelsome girl, her temper matching the "[seasons] of steady rain"(193) at the heights; yet "she [has] the bonniest eye, the sweetest smile, and lightest Foot in the parish"... that pretty much sums up being an nfj... when i watched the masterpiece theater version recently, the girl playing Catherine is an enfj in ways that can't be learned, right down to the emotional wrack that i've experienced so many times where i can do nothing but stand there and shake...

Like the Grange, Catherine often evinces warmth in her own feminine sense of tenderness, and she strives to be polite and civilized; but like the Heights, Catherine can be stormy and almost violently ardent at times. This trait is exemplified when, after a quarrel with Heathcliff and Edgar, she resolves to "dashing her head against the arm of the sofa, and grinding her teeth, so that [one] might fancy she would crash them to splinters"(157).

perfect summation of what impossible and protracted conflict does to me...

That's funny...an INTP friend I had I actually said that to him. This is something I don't need to experience unless we're sleeping together and we weren't, just good friends. I think he showed me more than he really wanted to but it was just easy like that. Prob one of the reasons we're not still really friends. I don't think his wife or he could handle it.

this reminds me of that intp er doctor... he was really terse and clinical when he first arrived, but something happened.... i can't say exactly what.... a wild look in my eyes, a shut-down, an unbreakable silence... something... he got down on his knees in front of me and quietly pleaded with me to speak to him, like he knew me and something really wrong was happening and i had to be pulled out... it was the strangest scene, like time had suspended...

Ooo robot...hmmm that is me when it's BAD.

I'm sorry you've had the dark things shape so much of your past...I hope the future is alot lighter and less of a burden. It's so important for people who love other people to have peace. They can contribute sooo much more that way.

I wish you peace.

thank you, honey.... :( you're very kind... :hug:
 

Littlelostnf

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Realizing that some things are only ephemeral, and don't need to be acted upon.

The mindmate and I have no boundaries, intellectually. We can, and do discuss, anything. And that's where it remains. On the idea level.

I love that word...ephemeral.
Do I think having a connection is short lived..hmmmm I think....

When you connect deeply and quickly and then build on that....it never really goes away. You just have to "go away" from each other.

Your wife is cool with that eh...good thing you're not married to an NF...I'm kinda thinking you must not be cause I don't think an NF could stand it. She'd want it all....specially if she could give it to you.
 

MacGuffin

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I love that word...ephemeral.
Do I think having a connection is short lived..hmmmm I think....

When you connect deeply and quickly and then build on that....it never really goes away. You just have to "go away" from each other.

Your wife is cool with that eh...good thing you're not married to an NF...I'm kinda thinking you must not be cause I don't think an NF could stand it. She'd want it all....specially if she could give it to you.

Oh no, she freaked out (mostly based on my guilty reaction). She's much better with it now that I'm not so freaked out myself. Hell... they've met in person!
 

proteanmix

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Partners or mindmates, yes. For the non-immature INTPs, that is. For everyone else? Not so much.

The most important thing is for the INTP to feel safe expressing their inner-most thoughts. Esp. when those thoughts can be abhorrent to the other person. As they will be, because INTPs think of the worst things.

Yeah, I get that; it's everywhere on the forums.

What I'm asking is what does the INTP DO to create an emotional safe space for their partner to deepen the relationship? That's why I have INTPs as friends. I don't mind talking about the ideas and thoughts, etc., but what of the rest? All I hear about is the INTP (like everyone else ) needs to have one opened for themselves. This is the major problem with ENFJ/INTP relationships...you have one partner who it's nearly their reason for being to do this kind of thing and another partner who is basically clueless of how to do this. It's unequal, it's teacher/student. Maybe one day the student will master their lessons but what happens in the mean time?
 

Tallulah

Emerging
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Feb 19, 2008
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IOW, I've never met an emotionally available INTP ready for a relationship, which doesn't mean they don't exist just that I haven't seen it.

I don't think this is a fair statement. You haven't met an INTP that's as emotionally available as you would like them to be, but admittedly, you have high emotional availability standards. Everyone has their own level of comfort with sharing emotions or needing to get them out. Just because an INTP doesn't need to vent all the time doesn't mean he doesn't trust you, or that he isn't capable of being your emotional rock.

You can't really say that someone's not ready for a relationship if you're just judging them by the standards you personally have for a relationship. All you can say, really, is that they're not a good candidate for a relationship with you, which is fine.

Is an INTP capable of creating an emotional safe space for their partner to open up in the same way or is this dependent on the other partner just being out with it?

Because it's damn hard to put yourself out there like that as I'm sure you know. Who gets the luxury of making sure the coast is clear?

Holy crap, yes. I feel like this is one of my strongest qualities. Young INTPs, not so much--they'll just point out where you're being illogical or whatever. But a mature INTP is a wonderful sounding board/safe place, because we see things from all sides, we don't judge you for having certain feelings, and we don't take things personally.

I've never dated a male ENFJ, so I have no idea how INTP/ENFJ would play out in a relationship. I do have several female ENFJ friends, and as far as I can tell, I'm the one they call when they do need to vent without being judged.
 
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