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Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

animenagai

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Aug 22, 2008
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1,569
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I take HUGE exception to the tenor of these comments. I've pulled down high marks all my life, read Hawking and Kaku ALONE (re: no "assistance" from an NT - as if), and kicked several INTPs' asses in the collegiate realm, including my genius ex-bf. In no way are INTPs more intelligent that ANYONE else. I find that supremely pedantic and arrogant, and a persistent issue. I've frequently drawn myself up short to wait on my INT friends to match me. Can I sit down and do long division in my head? No. And neither can my INTJ best friend, even though he has a ridiculously high IQ. Can genius-prone ex-bf walk circles around me mentally if he wanted to? Maybe. Maybe not. Hasn't been able to in 12 years. There are subjects that bore me to tears or things that I'm no good at (like my well-documented numerical dyslexia) that he can take me on, but there are others that we both like and used to "debate" for hours. For sheer processing power, he has me over a barrel, but I'll bet I can arrive at the same point via other means. Just watch me.

yeesh, calm down i didn't say INTP's were necessary smarter or whatever. as NT's they prize logic over all else. all i said was that ENFJ's are often smart so INTP's respect that. why the anger?
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
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11,429
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eNFJ
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4w3
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sx/so
You drained him of his essence, leaving behind nothing but an empty husk. You removed his tiny heart, putting it in a locket that you like to take out from time to time to look at and smile fondly.

Yes?

She's a Skeksis? :D

What the hades is wrong with us...I can't even stand that I'm this way...and yet I am. I'd like to be a cool calm Ms about love and I can't help the intensity. I gotta find myself the man who makes me feel like the Anais quote...WHERE THE HECK IS HE!!!! :steam:

I've felt it, but they just didn't stay. That's nothing that can be controlled.



Really... if you are looking for that kind of man, probably not best to look among the INTPs. Sorry, animenagai.

Yes, I just don't think 95% of the INTPs can give you that.

Explain.


The INTP is a detatched observer. Making enormous demands is out of the INTP wheelhouse.

Detached observer, in ideology. I stand four-square to that assertion. Try as you might, if you ever have the misfortune of falling for ENFJ, just try to stay on the fringe. I defy you. I defy your 'science', your 'detachment', your 'objectivity'. Once the catalyst hits your surface, kiss your ideology good-bye. Everything will burn away and take new shape. Go ahead. Try and stop it. I can't stop it either.

I don't like turbulent romantic relationships, nor do I think that I'm a turbulent person.

I'm turbulent. I can't help it. I really can't. :( I don't know what's wrong with me. I've been this way from the word 'go'. I don't go out for turbulence, but - I don't know. It's a point of deep sadness and mortification for me. Maybe you have to feel some measure of safety to be calm? To stop bucking? I'm trying to learn. But even on my good days, when I'm all right, I'm still feeling the lava moving around under the skin. My sisters and friends say I'm a wild animal and always will be. Is that bad? Because I can't turn it off. :(

I recoil from people because I don't want to exhaust them. That would destroy something in me.

Pink, I have a question: It seems like your relationships with these guys suffered an abrupt ending. How do you think they would've played out if they naturally ended?

Most likely badly, especially the drug addict. Fate stepped in because I was too stupid to draw my hand back out of the fire. Too stupid. When the cosmos steps in to pull you apart, you have problems.


I generally feel like I am (will be) unfair to whatever woman I am in a relationship with. I just don't have a lot to give emotionally... an ear to talk to, a shoulder to lean on, not being judgmental in most circumstances... but thats about it.

What's wrong with that? You don't have to go through her emotions with her. You just have to listen, to be there for her. Asking you to be something you're not accomplishes nothing at all, Y. I liked my INTP ex-bf *because* he didn't get jacked up. He listened in silence, and I knew I had his ear. He didn't have to announce it. I knew he cared because he listened. I knew he cared because he stayed over when I was just out of the hospital and alone. I knew he cared when my phone got cut off and bills were going unpaid because we were broke and he stepped in and helped us. I knew he cared when he went out at 10pm to find my mortally ill sister vitamins and then drive an hour to my house, only to sit with her awhile to make her laugh before he left.

THAT's how I know.



Sometimes the demands are put-on without realizing it. I used to drive my X-fiance crazy for reasons I never fully understood. Something about being busy/preoccupied with work/school/hobbies. The weird thing is she seemed to like that. The more I tried to do what she actually asked, and spent more time with her, the more she lost interest. I guess I became too little of a challenge.

That sounds immature on her part. Granted I don't like being up in anybody's business and vice versa, but that doesn't sound like what was meant.

yeesh, calm down i didn't say INTP's were necessary smarter or whatever. as NT's they prize logic over all else. all i said was that ENFJ's are often smart so INTP's respect that. why the anger?

It's the overarching "INTPs are smarter" talk that I've kinda lost patience with, not you. I sincerely apologize for my tone.


I'm sure you're right.

No, she isn't. I think the distinction between soul mate and mind mate is fine at best and completely open to personal interpretation. Her statement seems to imply that feelers speak only one way about heart matters and that's simply not true. We have a "mode", yes, but to throw a blanket over it is oversimplification.
 

Littlelostnf

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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
645
MBTI Type
ENFJ
No, she isn't. I think the distinction between soul mate and mind mate is fine at best and completely open to personal interpretation. Her statement seems to imply that feelers speak only one way about heart matters and that's simply not true. We have a "mode", yes, but to throw a blanket over it is oversimplification.

That's how she feels...

I know what you're saying.

She doesn't get it.

I think that the line is fine between the two myself. I don't have the energy
to argue with the way she feels...cause it is just about how she feels...thinks.

I guess my scarcasm isn't strong at all tonight...


Let her find out (or not) when an amazing ENFJ comes
her way...if she's that fortunate.
 

Littlelostnf

New member
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
645
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ENFJ
Detached observer, in ideology. I stand four-square to that assertion. Try as you might, if you ever have the misfortune of falling for ENFJ, just try to stay on the fringe. I defy you. I defy your 'science', your 'detachment', your 'objectivity'. Once the catalyst hits your surface, kiss your ideology good-bye. Everything will burn away and take new shape. Go ahead. Try and stop it. I can't stop it either.

Misfortune...nah not at all.

Strong ones don't run..they embrace a fire that doesn't burn...Lava creates new lands on which to plant all sorts of amazing things.
 

animenagai

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Aug 22, 2008
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to be honest PP, i am one of those people who think INTP's are smarter in general. i don't think that a person from one type is automatically smarter from one from another, i just think it has some truth in general. for the record, it's not just INTP's that i have respect for in terms of intelligence and despite all this, i've never felt inferior to any INTP in terms of intelligence. it seems like people (not just you) are getting sick of it though, so i'll stop :).
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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to be honest PP, i am one of those people who think INTP's are smarter in general. i don't think that a person from one type is automatically smarter from one from another, i just think it has some truth in general. for the record, it's not just INTP's that i have respect for in terms of intelligence and despite all this, i've never felt inferior to any INTP in terms of intelligence. it seems like people (not just you) are getting sick of it though, so i'll stop :).

That's what counts, really. :)

It may be more a male INTP vs. female ENFJ thing ultimately.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,996
What's wrong with that? You don't have to go through her emotions with her. You just have to listen, to be there for her. Asking you to be something you're not accomplishes nothing at all, Y. I liked my INTP ex-bf *because* he didn't get jacked up. He listened in silence, and I knew I had his ear. He didn't have to announce it. I knew he cared because he listened. I knew he cared because he stayed over when I was just out of the hospital and alone. I knew he cared when my phone got cut off and bills were going unpaid because we were broke and he stepped in and helped us. I knew he cared when he went out at 10pm to find my mortally ill sister vitamins and then drive an hour to my house, only to sit with her awhile to make her laugh before he left.

THAT's how I know.

It's good to know that can be enough.

That sounds immature on her part. Granted I don't like being up in anybody's business and vice versa, but that doesn't sound like what was meant.

She was kinda young, and she hadn't ever lived away from her parents (not even during college), so there were a lot of things going on for her. I can't say I understood compleltely.

I added to the mix by telling her about a rather anxiety causing dream of mine. I was also going through a rather strong period of self-doubt (which happens often). In retrospect, it was incosiderate of me to add to her burden.


to be honest PP, i am one of those people who think INTP's are smarter in general. i don't think that a person from one type is automatically smarter from one from another, i just think it has some truth in general. for the record, it's not just INTP's that i have respect for in terms of intelligence and despite all this, i've never felt inferior to any INTP in terms of intelligence. it seems like people (not just you) are getting sick of it though, so i'll stop :).

I am curious. Why do you think it has truth in general?

I am always amazed that someone can believe I am smart when we have only interacted with me for a few minutes (when I say next to nothing).

Is it a vibe of some sort? The glasses and beard?
 

Tallulah

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Feb 19, 2008
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Honestly, I think I'd rather have a soulmate than a mindmate. I enjoy meeting people whose brain works like mine, but it doesn't naturally inspire passion in me.
 

Jack Flak

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type
Honestly, I think I'd rather have a soulmate than a mindmate. I enjoy meeting people whose brain works like mine, but it doesn't naturally inspire passion in me.
Agree. I prefer anyone but a love interest to be a "mindmate," because it doesn't add much to a romantic relationship, yet has the capability to subtract. Soulmate is difficult. It will likely be amazingly good and bad at different times (bad namely if things go south). Playmate is easy and fun. The latter two are of interest to me.
 

animenagai

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I am curious. Why do you think it has truth in general?

I am always amazed that someone can believe I am smart when we have only interacted with me for a few minutes (when I say next to nothing).

Is it a vibe of some sort? The glasses and beard?

well NT's are NT's because they value wisdom, knowledge and the like. they will naturally push themselves towards being smart etc. because they find it important. with the same logic i think people who value people will have better people skills in general. it's not the glasses or whatever :smile:. most of the INTP's i've met don't really look geeky at all. this is personality after all, doesn't have too much to do with looks. i like INTP's because the I means they're self motivated (it's where you get your energy from), NT for the previous reasons and P because it means they're willing to dwell on the question and explore different alleyways and not just shut them off immediately. once again, i'm not saying that INTP's are necessarily smarter than another as individuals but i think that earning for intelligence must count for something.
 

Sunshine8

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Aug 29, 2008
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Currently in a relationship with an INTP (male)

Hi,

I am a female ENFJ currently in a relationship with a male INTP. It is interesting because I have always thought I could see the potential in people (what ENFJ wouldn't?), but when I met him for the first time I thought he was kind of boring and uptight. I had been in two 'soulmate' relationships with an INFJ and an ENFJ and this match seemed like chalk and cheese by comparison. However he was very keen and I still didn't quite get why he was barking up my tree! I would have thought I was the opposite of the sort of person he would be into. Politically I am quite left and he is quite right...etc.

What is interesting though, is that as I get to know him, I find he is one of the most enigmatic and challenging people I have ever met. I seem to spend so much of my time always trying to do the right thing by everyone, but he seems to have no such desire - it really just changes by the minute.

I still feel as though we are still just getting to know each other after a year, and I normally feel as though I know someone after five minutes!

The important thing for me is that I feel we are growing, and especially growing closer together. Every time there is a challenge it seems we reach some new space and understanding together. And then I look at him and think...ah-huh! NOW I get it. Very interesting.

In contrast, with the INFJ and the ENFJ I had that almighty 'bolt from the blue' that I thought would last a lifetime...but the growth just wasn't there. I experienced terrible grief at the end of each of these past relationships. I gave them my all, but I think the soul-intimacy developed ahead of the brain and friendship-intimacy and they shipwrecked in a spectacular fashion.

So I am still working it out, but my overall impression about the match so far would be:

Challenging, energetic without being too intense, space for each person to be themselves, a call to stand as equals - not some prince or princess, a feeling of growth (even if is bought about through conflict at times), a sense of respect for the other person's abilities, a sense of depth - long term prospects for fulfillment on both sides.

Hope that helps!
 
Last edited:

colmena

señor member
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Apr 27, 2008
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1,549
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INXP
Challenging, energetic without being too intense, space for each person to be themselves, a call to stand as equals - not some prince or princess, a feeling of growth (even if is bought about through conflict at times), a sense of respect for the other person's abilities, a sense of depth - long term prospects for fulfillment on both sides.

Hope that helps!

This sounds wonderful, and what I had in mind.

And as for the soul/mindmate discussion: I can see a chance to satisfy both with an ENFJ.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
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1,511
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ENTP
No, she isn't. I think the distinction between soul mate and mind mate is fine at best and completely open to personal interpretation.
You can define them any way you want. But you didn't come up with the terms and you don't get the final say in what they mean to people who actually want to use them. I don't enjoy the prospect of a semantics discussion with you, I'll just say that if you don't really want to use some words because the common usage hurts your feelings or whatever that's fine. But I can still use them if I want and so I need them to NOT be completely open to interpretation.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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You can define them any way you want. But you didn't come up with the terms and you don't get the final say in what they mean to people who actually want to use them. I don't enjoy the prospect of a semantics discussion with you, I'll just say that if you don't really want to use some words because the common usage hurts your feelings or whatever that's fine. But I can still use them if I want and so I need them to NOT be completely open to interpretation.

Did you stamp your feet when you said that?

Seriously, I find the terms lacking and will continue to either revise the ones that exist or do away with them entirely.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
MBTI Type
ENTP
Did you stamp your feet when you said that?
yeah, I must have. Right?

Seriously, I find the terms lacking and will continue to either revise the ones that exist or do away with them entirely.

sure, just don't tell me I'm wrong because your definitions are weird and perpetually changing.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Hi,

I am a female ENFJ currently in a relationship with a male INTP. It is interesting because I have always thought I could see the potential in people (what ENFJ wouldn't?), but when I met him for the first time I thought he was kind of boring and uptight. I had been in two 'soulmate' relationships with an INFJ and an ENFJ and this match seemed like chalk and cheese by comparison. However he was very keen and I still didn't quite get why he was barking up my tree! I would have thought I was the opposite of the sort of person he would be into. Politically I am quite left and he is quite right...etc.

What is interesting though, is that as I get to know him, I find he is one of the most enigmatic and challenging people I have ever met. I seem to spend so much of my time always trying to do the right thing by everyone, but he seems to have no such desire - it really just changes by the minute.

I still feel as though we are still just getting to know each other after a year, and I normally feel as though I know someone after five minutes!

The important thing for me is that I feel we are growing, and especially growing closer together. Every time there is a challenge it seems we reach some new space and understanding together. And then I look at him and think...ah-huh! NOW I get it. Very interesting.

In contrast, with the INFJ and the ENFJ I had that almighty 'bolt from the blue' that I thought would last a lifetime...but the growth just wasn't there. I experienced terrible grief at the end of each of these past relationships. I gave them my all, but I think the soul-intimacy developed ahead of the brain and friendship-intimacy and they shipwrecked in a spectacular fashion.

So I am still working it out, but my overall impression about the match so far would be:

Challenging, energetic without being too intense, space for each person to be themselves, a call to stand as equals - not some prince or princess, a feeling of growth (even if is bought about through conflict at times), a sense of respect for the other person's abilities, a sense of depth - long term prospects for fulfillment on both sides.

Hope that helps!

Interesting first post!

And I don't believe I've ever considered dating an NFJ before so your perspective is certainly from a new angle. So did things not work out because there was too much "sameness" in the other relationships?
 

Lateralus

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May 18, 2007
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Did you stamp your feet when you said that?
Assigning emotions is a great debate strategy. :rolleyes:

Seriously, I find the terms lacking and will continue to either revise the ones that exist or do away with them entirely.
Under what authority? Is there some central governing body that legislates the definitions of words?
 
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