User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 39

  1. #1

    Default Temperament crossover

    What do you guys think of this? I find ENTJs and ENFJs very guardian like (and sometimes easy to confuse because of the similarities). Same way that I see some individual ENTPs and ENFPs to be as hedonistic or more so than a lot of the of individual artisans.

    I notice when I converse with many INFJs they often come off as more "rational" than some of the individual rationals I know. I've seen plenty of NTs let emotion cloud their judgement more than a lot of the INFJs, I know.

    I also, notice I often mistype an ISTP as an INTP (and find many mistype themselves). It helps me clarify when I mistype without knowing them well enough (and what the usual pitfalls were in my mistakes).

    INTP - rational/rational
    ENTJ - guardian/rational
    INTJ - idealist/rational
    ENTP - artisan/rational

    INFP - idealist/idealist
    ENFP - artisan/idealist
    ENFJ - guardian/idealist
    INFJ - rational/idealist

    ISTP - rational/artisan
    ESTP - artisan/artisan
    ISFP - idealist/artisan
    ESFP - artisan/artisan

    ISFJ - idealist/guardian
    ESFJ - guardian/guardian
    ESTJ - rational/guardian
    ISTJ - guardian/guardian

  2. #2
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    This makes sense to me.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  3. #3
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Of course, the question is: what differentiates one lookalike from the other?

  4. #4
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Of course, the question is: what differentiates one lookalike from the other?
    Sequence of words, I think.








    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  5. #5
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    None of the guardians look like artisans?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #6
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    None of the guardians look like artisans?
    That makes sense too.

    Okay, let me add to that before I get walloped for fluff posting.

    From external appearance, SPs do not show an interest in security the way that SJs do. SPs are temperamentally drawn to action. SJs are temperamentally drawn to preserving tradition.

    So it makes sens that guardians would not look like artisans.

    Another thing--SJs seem to be more attuned to the past/recent past whereas SPs seem to be more attuned to the present and immediate future.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  7. #7
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Sequence of words, I think.
    It took a good fifteen seconds before I sifted through the possible reasons for old Scratch's presence. Well played.

    Still, the topic also interests me personally, since I decided, about five months ago, to cross over in terms of self-identification -- and still need to remove (or concede to) a few doubts.


    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Another thing--SJs seem to be more attuned to the past/recent past whereas SPs seem to be more attuned to the present and immediate future.
    What about likely SJs that don't fit the prevailing stereotype -- those that are neither pessimistic nor early starters, but are reliable and traditional? What's at work? Age? Function ambivalence?

  8. #8
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    It's just the inconsistency that bothers me. All the groups except the guardians have all four crossover types. I'm thinking ESFJ might could pretend to be artisan on a wild day. But that's probably my OCD talking.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It's just the inconsistency that bothers me. All the groups except the guardians have all four crossover types. I'm thinking ESFJ might could pretend to be artisan on a wild day. But that's probably my OCD talking.
    I agree with your Cafe...I could see an ESFJ as an artisan on a wild day. Come on now think "Girls gone Wild" not all those girls can be Artisans.
    I'm thinkin a good number of them are SJ's
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    None of the guardians look like artisans?
    I actually tried to force one to be the case. I just came up with these based on people I knew (and my intuitions on them as a whole), I tried hard to think of one that was more less guardian or more hedonistic, but I know a few individual ISTJ, ESFJ, and ESTJ hedonists. But I knew several severe counterexamples.

    Then I thought - why would there have to be a symmetrical alignment?

    The NT/NF/SJ paradigm is somewhat of an artificial or arbitrary boundary. On a vague moral or general world view sense - I see INFJs, INTJs and ENFPs closer to the ENTP, for example, than the ENTJ or INTP. I find INTPs, in a lot of ways, more similar to ISTPs (in terms of treatment of others) than to other rationals, etc...

    Ultimately, I don't find the NT grouping necessarily more important than other groupings conventions (at least the ones in my head).
    Last edited by meanlittlechimp; 06-09-2007 at 01:45 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. temperament test and poll (Hippocrates)
    By Shimpei in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 166
    Last Post: 08-18-2013, 09:16 PM
  2. Temperaments (Social Styles)
    By sdalek in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-05-2009, 09:30 PM
  3. Type Theory vs. Temperament Theory
    By proteanmix in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-19-2007, 10:38 PM
  4. INTRO ; MBTI & Co-relation wt. Keirsey 4 Temperaments
    By Rakesh in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-01-2007, 09:06 AM
  5. MBTI & Co-relation wt. Keirsey 4 Temperaments
    By rivercrow in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-31-2007, 03:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO