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  1. #21
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    There has been some tweaking of Keirsey's original theory, by one of his prize pupils (Linda V. Berens). Best Fit has changed the names of the four temperaments and tweaked their core values. I think much was the result of SP types finding Keirsey's implication that we are hedonistic, offensive:
    Thanks for posting the tweaked names. I like those better--they seem more accurate.

    I wonder--should we rename the Temperaments sections here?
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    On a wild day, sure!
    Yeah I know a few ESFJ's who are pretty wild. One is club promoter. Hard drugs and drinking in excess - but according to schedule - 10pm to 4am (5 nights a week) He likes the spotlight and the status of doing it - but it's a different mentality then the true hedonists I know.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    That's actually one of the things I picked up when looking at some of the psychological relationships some people made up for the types. A lot of other incomplete theories lack perfect symmetry, and have exceptions, and as a very incomplete idea on how people work, the MBTI system seems much more likely than not to have exceptions and lack of symmetry as well.
    Yeah, I don't see why there has to be symmetry. 4 of each type etc. Why not 5 of one type and 3 of another?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    One correction chimp. ESTJ should be the quintissential SJ, they are indeed the type that is most concerned with following the objective tenets of the tradition. ESFJs are bit softer on that, as they may go out of their way to please others.

    I dont believe that ESFJ is artisan like. Their superior function is an Extroverted Judging one. If there would be an SJ that is the most SP-like, it would have to be one with a superior perceiving function.

    I dont think that either the ISTJ or ISFJ have enough of that element in them. ISTJ, though should be the most NT like of the Guardians as they are the most concerned with analyzing facts (not ideas, but still better off than the other 3) of all 4. Whereas ESTJs are just concerned with implementing concrete knowledge. Or at least more concerned with that than the ISTJ.
    The guardians was the hardest one for me. I wanted to make them all guardian/guardian. i know one or two ISTJ, ESFJ and ESTJ who are very wild but are still guardians. They tend to do be "wild" or hedonistic because of a lifestyle or culture they were surrounded by - it wasn't indicative of the type but rather the individual and their particular environment. (One was a big time drug dealer who grew up in a rough neigborhood) They are still ultimately guardinas however because their behavior was still guardian like even while doing these seemingly contradictory things.

    One was a drug dealer and another was a club promoter. They showed organizational skills and attention to detail which allowed them to profit from their hedonism or lifestyle.

  5. #25
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    I am kind of sceptical of this. I think it's hard to generalize. People will have more in common with temperaments they test close to. An ESFJ with only a very weak J preference might obviously have a lot in common with the SP temperament. One can also imagine this person is only a borderline S, and so the person might also have a lot in common with the NF temperament. That's what makes the big difference, how people test. I think they test too diverse to generalize.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    ISFJ - idealist/guardian

    According to a test I'm guardian/rationalist.

  7. #27
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    The guardians was the hardest one for me. I wanted to make them all guardian/guardian. i know one or two ISTJ, ESFJ and ESTJ who are very wild but are still guardians. They tend to do be "wild" or hedonistic because of a lifestyle or culture they were surrounded by - it wasn't indicative of the type but rather the individual and their particular environment. (One was a big time drug dealer who grew up in a rough neigborhood) They are still ultimately guardinas however because their behavior was still guardian like even while doing these seemingly contradictory things.

    One was a drug dealer and another was a club promoter. They showed organizational skills and attention to detail which allowed them to profit from their hedonism or lifestyle.
    Dont be so confined to your personal experiences, you'll let their personalities throw you off. Type is not about personality, but about unconscious temperament.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #28
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    (I haven't read through all of this)


    Anyone else ever consistently type an ENFJ as ESFP (not all ENFJs, but more than once made the error)? Maybe it's a maturity/age thing of the ENFJ who appears ESFP or maybe it's me not trying to get to know them well enough... but I really feel like ENFJs are people I connect with really well. And when I don't instantly and intuitively "recognize" them as ENFJ (as in, within two minutes of seeing them interact) I have trouble believing that they are actually ENFJ and not ESFP.

    There have been three or four people who I nkow have been tested and claim they are ENFJ but I really doubt these three or four people. I wonder if they even read the ESFP things.

    Or maybe there's something about it that I'm missing? Is this just b/c I'm assuming I'll have a recognizable "moment" with all ENFJs?

    Can ENFJs be really flighty and visibly, sometimes frequently, emotionally unstable? i've always seen ENFJs as emotionally stable.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Dont be so confined to your personal experiences, you'll let their personalities throw you off. Type is not about personality, but about unconscious temperament.
    I try to make it a combination of experience and theory. I mean the "theory" was figured out by Jung observing thousands of patients and people and categorizing them by observable behavior.

    There is no way this theory without observation would have been more plausible than all the other ways to classify human behavior before it. I believe in i t because it's constantly reinforced through my experience. But I see your point - my sample size is very small. Which is why I throw it out on these boards to get more feedback (and data).
    Last edited by meanlittlechimp; 07-04-2007 at 09:25 PM.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    According to a test I'm guardian/rationalist.
    What test are you speaking about?

    I labeled ISFJs the idealist/guardian only because I find they are the most truly altruistic of the guardians. I find that many of the other ones have a tit for tat exchange in their head and often have less than pure motivations for being "nice". I noticed ISFJ's being less guilty of that.

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