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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It was just a joke. Over the course of this thread I decided that observing use of Functions like Ni (or Introverted Intuition) is not a worthy method to describe people. The joke is: instantly contradicting myself.

    On a serious note, if I had to guess a type for you it would be INFJ. I am by no means confident of this.
    I'll tell you what - I will stick with with Xander's INTP and see how it sits.

    But after a while I will try your INFJ.

    How's that?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I'll tell you what - I will stick with with Xander's INTP and see how it sits.

    But after a while I will try your INFJ.

    How's that?
    That's fine. If you're interested in finding out what "MBTI" type you might be, I recommend the tests and descriptions at Personality Test - Keirsey Temperament Website.

  3. #83
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Actually I think you're INTJ because you favor Ni.
    I think I know now why it's so tempting to do this. It's not just the Ni that you're analysing on. ENTJs use Ni and you never mention that in your analysis, presumably because your checklist of ENTJ traits remained unsatisfactoraly unticked.

    Perhaps this is how such practices are taught? Watching the practised take shortcuts and trying to emulate?

    Anyhow I'm re-evaluating Victor on a post by post basis. I'm still on NT, I'd love to hear why you think NF, but I'm leaning more towards ENTP more than INTP. There seems to be mental flexibility but not under concious control like an INTP... I could be just blowing smoke however.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #84
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    X:

    I was joking about Ni, just to contradict myself about f. analysis. Not that some descriptions of Ni aren't accurate. Basically there are too many different descriptions of the functions, and they're impossible to reliably pin down in subjects. This applies even to the dominant function, and 2nd/3rd/etc. functional observation is laughable.

    Victor's entertaining as all get out once you realize he knows exactly what he's saying.

  5. #85
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    X:

    I was joking about Ni, just to contradict myself about f. analysis. Not that some descriptions of Ni aren't accurate. Basically there are too many different descriptions of the functions, and they're impossible to reliably pin down in subjects. This applies even to the dominant function, and 2nd/3rd/etc. functional observation is laughable.
    I know... just carrying out the tangent to it's natural conclusion... reflex
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Victor's entertaining as all get out once you realize he knows exactly what he's saying.
    Eh?

    You wouldn't be using all the right words but not necessarily in the right order would you?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #86
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    "get out"="hell" or something to that effect. Americana

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Victor's entertaining as all get out once you realize he knows exactly what he's saying.
    It might be helpful to remember that whereas you make the distinction between sincere and phoney, we make the same distinction between amusing and boring.

    So I can compliment you by calling you sincere, and you can compliment me by saying I am amusing.

    So I am delighted you think I am entertaining.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Anyhow I'm re-evaluating Victor on a post by post basis. I'm still on NT, I'd love to hear why you think NF, but I'm leaning more towards ENTP more than INTP. There seems to be mental flexibility but not under concious control like an INTP... I could be just blowing smoke however.
    I don't think you are blowing smoke Xander.

    I have done a test of introversion and extroversion and I scored high on both. This is unusual as most tend to one score, at either end or in the middle. However a high score on both introversion and extroversion does seem to correlate with creativity.

    My personal experience of this is that I can switch between the two parts of my brain. So that when I am tired out by one, I switch to the other to refresh myself.

    And I do like give up conscious control for a while and enter what I call a trance. It is a bit like the trance Colmena enters when he goes for a walk. Let's call it the walking trance. And Colmena has commented that the mental state he enters on a walk is quite like the trance I enter in front of this screen. Let's call it the trance of the Noosphere.

    But when I have taken my fill of a particular trance, I like to return to my fully conscious mind, my awake mind, and digest the experience of the trance and integrate it into my thinking mind. Then I get new ideas for my next trance and I can't wait to try them out. So I keep my appetite sharp.

    I am very interested in what you think my type is. Partly because I am highly suggestible in a trance and am interested in trying out the various types, then thinking about the experience and analysing it and evaluating it.

    Also I am interested in you typing me because I think the most important part of this site is person to person conversation. So I am interested in what you think and how it affects me and you and everyone here.

    I see this site a a field where each member affects each other member and the whole.

    I am particularly interested how each member affects the whole group.

  9. #89
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I am very interested in what you think my type is. Partly because I am highly suggestible in a trance and am interested in trying out the various types, then thinking about the experience and analysing it and evaluating it.
    Not being mean or anything, I'm doing this for clarity though it may sting.

    This was what I was picking up from you. I disagree that it's possible, I think it's self fulfilling prophecy and not healthy.

    That said I am interested in what you "feed" to yourself before the trance to allow you to alter your type.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Not being mean or anything, I'm doing this for clarity though it may sting.

    This was what I was picking up from you. I disagree that it's possible, I think it's self fulfilling prophecy and not healthy.

    That said I am interested in what you "feed" to yourself before the trance to allow you to alter your type.
    I don't mind you being mean and a little sting may bring clarity.

    I understand you disagree that you think it is possible it is not healthy.

    However I agree with you that a trance can be a self fulfilling prophecy. In fact I am strongly in favour of designing trances in advance to produce chosen results.

    But what can I say? For instance I can enter a trance in front of a beautiful tree and completely identify with the tree to such and extent that I can speak as the tree. As far as I am concerned I am the tree as long as I am in that particular trance.

    So there is no reason I can't fully indentify with any particular type when I am in a trance.

    I understand this is bring up cognitive dissonance within the rubric of MBTI.

    In fact this cognitive dissonance highlights the fact that MBTI reifies the personality, whereas by identifying with each and all personality types returns the personality to the person.

    So rather than treating each person as a thing in MBTI, we see that we are living persons, not things.

    I full recogise this is subversive of MBTI. And I think this subversion is incoherently recogised by most here.

    And this explains the negative response I get from members here - they at least unconsciously recognise that I am subversive - but even worse, that I am sincerely subversive.

    So we reach the interesting question of how this cognitive dissonance that I engender may be resolved.

    Well, you could choose one side or the other; or you could recognise we are simply asking the wrong question; or you could transcend the cognitive dissonance and enter a new understanding.

    And as they say, when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do?

    And learning is not putting facts into your mind but changing your mind itself.

    But our mind resists change and we find cognitive dissonance painful so we prefer to shoot the messenger.

    Don't shoot, don't shoot - I am only the messenger.

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