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  1. #11
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post


    I'm not really good at explaining what I think and I usually find that visuals are the best way to explain what I think. I use that picture as a representation of varying levels of individual function usage.

    It's so hard to find good expressions of abstracted and functional dominant functions on the forum. I'm going to use Ne because I think it's one of the easiest functions that you can "see" being used. I'm not trying to pick on anyone I'm just choosing members that are good examples of what I want to communicate.

    CzeCze and Liquid Laser exhibit good Ne grounded with their introverted judgment. They're able to accurately find the relevant points of connection between ideas and communicate them easily and it clear for people to understand. Some ENPs on the forum think that being random and disconnected is being Ne, or more generally obfuscating things is being intuitive. I also think that this is how someone becomes "intuitive" on the forum, by showing exaggerated manifestations of Ne and Ni.

    Back on topic, it is using Ne but it's using it in a 1D way. Anyone can be random and make unlikely connections but I don't think mature use of a function is that ostentatious. TLL and Cze don't seem to get bogged down in possibilities or connections that lead to dead ends. For example, CzeCze will come into a discussion and summarize and unify they most pertinent points or the way Liquid Laser has better arguments and sounder logic than a good number of INTPs on the forum. Judging by their forum behavior, I'd say they've moved into at least 3D use of their dominant function.

    Not picking on CaptainChick (), but CC is a good example of someone who floats between 2D and beyond usage of her dominant Ne. You see her making the connections, but she's not sure which ones are worth investigating further. Sometimes this makes her seem scattered and all of the map. This manifests itself IRL with the jack of all trades, master of none attitude that many EPs have. Not knowing where to focus their possibility or sensation seeking abilities and explode it into something great within their chosen area of interest. It gets scattered like leaves in the wind.

    Now once you've moved past 2D use of your dominant function, I wonder how much further in development you can delve into with your other functions? Like can you ever achieve more than 3D use of your tertiary and inferior function? Can shadow functions ever not play a fearful role in your life and regularly accessed in a positive way?

    When people have abstracted their dominant function or moved past one and two dimensional usage of a function they don't need to show it off as much because they're confident in their ability of how to use it. It begins to look more like this:



    This picture represents what happens when any function has matured into a cohesive whole.

    I guess this goes into the preference vs. ability argument when it comes to typing people. I believe that's what makes it hard to type people accurately in real life (or maybe it's just me!) because many have had to develop functions "out of order" and may have developed at least 3D usage of another function which hides their true type and also why it's easier to find people who act stereotypically their type because they've developed more or less in order. When I say out of order I mean that your dominant and auxiliary still developed in tandem but everything else is up in the air.

    What do people think?
    The chief distinction here is between the competent use of only one function and the use of all of them.

    The illustration on top denotes the former, the illustration on the bottom, the latter.

    The in between, those in between respectively.

    Thus the correction here is, it is not about the one dimensional or multi dimensional use of the dominant function but properly interlacing the dominant function with the less prevalent faculties by cultivating them and in effect allowing for them to be activated properly.
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  2. #12
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    ^what he said.

  3. #13
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The chief distinction here is between the competent use of only one function and the use of all of them.

    The illustration on top denotes the former, the illustration on the bottom, the latter.

    The in between, those in between respectively.

    Thus the correction here is, it is not about the one dimensional or multi dimensional use of the dominant function but properly interlacing the dominant function with the less prevalent faculties by cultivating them and in effect allowing for them to be activated properly.
    Then maybe at the 3d level we have 2 illustrations--a symmetrical cube for developed use of dominant and a "squashed" cube for someone using a function in a less developed manner. Then the final figure would be a great depiction of individuation.
    edcoaching

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    When people have abstracted their dominant function or moved past one and two dimensional usage of a function they don't need to show it off as much because they're confident in their ability of how to use it.



    I guess this goes into the preference vs. ability argument when it comes to typing people.
    Excellent points.
    It is a most curious phenomenon that a poster should assume a type, claim all the good attributes of the type's dominant functions and assert excellence in the type while utterly contradicting every aspect of the claimed attributes. If I claim self-awareness and superior intuition and extraverted feeling, but then go on to act like a petulant child taking ill-conceived, antagonistic potshots at others, one must conclude that I have very little understanding of my cognitive functions and/or that I am very poor at the functions although I have a preference for them. Perference =/= superior ability, and there are variations in the maturity of each person's preferred function.

  5. #15
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Um...can you repeat the part of the stuff where you talked about the things?

    You know...the THINGS?
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  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Proteanmix:

    Very interesting. You seem to be describing proficiency, and saying that how often a function is used is not necessarily the same as how effectively and with how much skill it is used. So, a lower dimensional function could still be used a lot, but it would be unskilled or basic use, which might work for simpler things. A higher dimensional function would be used in more complex, aware, and effective ways.

    Do I seem to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Um...can you repeat the part of the stuff where you talked about the things?

    You know...the THINGS?
    I'm afraid they didn't talk about things at all. Just ideas... pure abstraction. We haven't really tried to apply it straight to reality yet.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post


    You know you've played too much Zelda when all you care about is that you can see a TriForce in there..

    Edit:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Didums; 08-18-2008 at 06:08 PM.

  8. #18
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    proteanmix, shall I psychoanalyze you, and describe and delineate what I find to be your moral/ethical deficiencies and your cognitive limitations???

    (F.Y.I. You exhibit/have many)

    Wait, you're a mod, so I can't do that, shucks, oh well.

    As much as you offend me, you flatter me, thanks hon.

    Last edited by SillySapienne; 08-18-2008 at 03:09 AM. Reason: failures, deficiencies, eh... she has both.
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  9. #19
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    the good thing is: at least it was shown why "Moving past 1D function use" is a necessary thread.

    I myself call it the "MBTI Uncertainity Principle"

    You cant have a look at a 1D function, then you will neglect its integration in the whole human being and you can not look at the whole human being, then you can not sort out exactly, how the 1D building blocks work and manifest themselves in the process of personality.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    proteanmix, shall I psychoanalyze you, and describe and delineate what I find to be your moral/ethical failures and your cognitive limitations???

    (F.Y.I. You exhibit/have many)

    Wait, you're a mod, so I can't do that, shucks, oh well.

    As much as you offend me, you flatter me, thanks hon.

    Wasn't trying to offend you. Psychoanalyze away, I don't mind! If I open myself up to it I'll have to deal with it.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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