So about this Fe Fi thing

[DreamBeliever]

My biggest question that I've been thinking on Fe vs. Fi is that, my understanding is that Fe is wanting group harmony & Fi is wanting internal harmony, but how do you tell the difference from wanting to keep peace amound a group & placing importance on external values from making other people's feelings & considering other people as one of your internal values?

Does this make sense? Not sure if I'm conveying it right. I'll be happy to clarify with examples, if you guys need.

 

[Jaguar]

It makes perfect sense. If I could pick a decent barometer for Fe, it would be to habitually make decisions seeking consensus. And I do mean habitual. Try looking at it that way and see what happens. Otherwise, I agree with you, trying to choose Fe and Fi based on harmony will simply have you going in circles, chasing your tail. One can desire inner harmony and to get that, the person may need to consider the feelings of others. But considering the feelings of others, to be kind, is not the same as seeking consensus to make all of your decisions.

What should I make for dinner? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
Which car should I buy? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
Should I take this job offer? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
What new business should I start? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.

I exaggerated the number to make a point, but a point that needed to be made.

 

[Yama]

What should I make for dinner? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
Which car should I buy? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
Should I take this job offer? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
What new business should I start? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.

I exaggerated the number to make a point, but a point that needed to be made.

^Literally me. And if someone I ask disapproves of what I want to do, I either don't do it or I try to convince them otherwise and get their approval before doing it. It bothers me a hell of a lot otherwise.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

It makes perfect sense. If I could pick a decent barometer for Fe, it would be to habitually make decisions seeking consensus. And I do mean habitual. Try looking at it that way and see what happens. Otherwise, I agree with you, trying to choose Fe and Fi based on harmony will simply have you going in circles, chasing your tail. One can desire inner harmony and to get that, the person may need to consider the feelings of others. But considering the feelings of others, to be kind, is not the same as seeking consensus to make all of your decisions.

What should I make for dinner? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
Which car should I buy? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
Should I take this job offer? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.
What new business should I start? Let me ask 456 people for their opinion.

I exaggerated the number to make a point, but a point that needed to be made.

I personally find an equally strong drive for inner and outer peace, but I will run away from any social environment in which external peace is not possible. I don't ask others very often about their opinions on my decisions, but I think important decisions through from every viewpoint from which it will be experienced. Most of the time it isn't applicable to ask each person, but I consider every person.

Edit: I'm also a Fe-aux raised by Fi-doms. I find my desire for peace in the external world isn't something that I exert my will towards socially, but I work to help create a sense of inner peace in others, because if they feel pain and anxiety, then I do as well. I feel a negative dichotomy in my relationship with the world because I am deeply affected by conflict and negativity - I can't shut it out, but I'm also too distant as a perceiver dominant to effect change in the way a strong Fe-dom can do. I don't really know how to live in the world socially and emotionally. I'm finding the need to have mental discipline to shut out the problems and pain that are outside my control and focus my efforts and connection on the few people with whom I can have meaningful peace and the few areas where I can act to make the world a better place. I've been trying to shut out the big picture more, but I doubt I'll ever entirely succeed at doing this.

 

[DreamBeliever]

I might ask a lot of people their opinion on something, what they think I should do, or what they would do, but in the end I have to go with what I think for myself. I like to smooth things over for friends & family that I really care about when I think they're blowing things out of proportion. Like when I'm thinking 'it ain't all that.' I wouldn't say I always seek a majority consensus, although I do sometimes seek validation. However, I stopped going to church for a good number of years now (even though I still consider myself spiritual & probably a Christian too), because I can't support a place like that since I don't believe all the same things they do & can't just bite my tongue during mass & can't support the abuse that goes on in the community. Plus, I don't believe in a group of people that all think the exact same way (sounds like brainwash to me). I was raised Catholic. I also hate rude people, though. I just don't see why people would ever be intentionally nasty.


I still can't figure out if I use Fe or Fi.

 

[violet_crown]

^Literally me. And if someone I ask disapproves of what I want to do, I either don't do it or I try to convince them otherwise and get their approval before doing it. It bothers me a hell of a lot otherwise.

Why? You're the one who has to live with the decision, not them.

 

[Yama]

Why? You're the one who has to live with the decision, not them.

If something bad happens as a result of me not listening to others' input/opinions I feel really guilty (even if I'm the only one affected). If nothing bad happens the bothersome feeling goes away eventually. Really, it's just because I want my friends/family to approve of my actions. (I never really ask strangers/acquaintances for their opinions and what they'd have to say would have little weight on my actions compared to friends/family).

 

[á´…eparted]

^Literally me. And if someone I ask disapproves of what I want to do, I either don't do it or I try to convince them otherwise and get their approval before doing it. It bothers me a hell of a lot otherwise.

If something bad happens as a result of me not listening to others' input/opinions I feel really guilty (even if I'm the only one affected). If nothing bad happens the bothersome feeling goes away eventually.

Same. It's a thing that Fe doms are really bound to (for better for worse). I've found that there is a lot of people who really dislike this and think that it's bad pretty much all the time it's used. What I usually says is it's gotten me far and in practice appears to work well. Granted, I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions on my own. I just generally prefer not to as I feel additional opinions helps increase accuracy.

Really, it's just because I want my friends/family to approve of my actions. (I never really ask strangers/acquaintances for their opinions and what they'd have to say would have little weight on my actions compared to friends/family).

Though I do differ here. I really just care that I do something right. Approval/disapproval more or less comes naturally through that. I do also agree who says what about something carries different weight depending on who they are.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Honestly, I'm not that "peace focused". For me, it's a matter of keeping integrity and doing what is right, not just keeping peace. Sometimes this means disrupting peace. For me, peace is often a good result of acting in line with what is right, and also harmonizing thoughts, feelings, ideas, facts, etc, so that there are not incrongruencies which can trouble me. I spend more time working out these incongruencies than taking any action to make or maintain peace, so I guess you could argue I'm focused more on inner peace, but as noted, that is not the goal. The goal is refined grasp of what is good, true, etc, so that when the time comes to act I am able to do the right thing, as opposed to following some questionable social script.

This page is discussing INFJs and INFPs, and while I take issue with some phrasing and details (and the inevitably shallow grasp of Fi and equating feeling too much with emotion), I think overall it makes some good points, especially regading Fe and Fi.
It notes how Fe can be selfish, which is not something pointed out enough (too much harping on Fi for this, although selfishness is not a feature of any function itself).

I appreciate this line:
it’s more helpful to see it as “serving other’s needs first in order to get your own needs met” (Harmony) versus “honoring one’s own experience first in order to honor other’s experience” (Authenticity).

Unhealty Fe can turn into "manipulating others under the guise of serving them in order to get your own needs met" and of course Fi can become "honoring one's own experience at the expense of others" . This happens with Fe way more than is spoken of, but the talk of Fi selfishness gets done to death.

I think a better description of Fi is "understanding one's own experience first as a prototype for human in order to understand others' experience or the general human condition". In understanding this, then of course you have an inner model to guide you with people in real time. Another way of putting this is Fe focuses on the "space between us" and Fi on the "space within us", so that Fi doesnt really discount other people at all, just has more focus on their inner state than the interpersonal dynamic.

Here is the page:
INFP vs INFJ: 5 Surprising Differences To Tell Them Apart : Personality Hacker

 

[Eric B]

Wow, that's an interesting page; he uses a good approach, and good function definitions. (I'm leery about using single word names for the function-attitudes, for they can sometimes lead to generalizations (and Berens/Nardi have used this approach as well), but it's a nice idea.
(Reminds me a lot of Personality Junkie).