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  1. #31
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    everybody can get to the same end goal, it is the way they get there, the functions tells us why/how.

  2. #32
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Yes, but ofc some are more one sided on the T/F area and might not listen to logic as easily, also in general F types when pissed off or cornered tend to reject logic easier than T types. But this doesent work only one way, some T types are one sided on the T/F as well and only listen to logic, or think that they only listen to logic and that F is there on the background doing more work than the poor T understands and just makes up some stupid rationale to convince himself of being logical or only follow logic that follows their unconscious F judgments.

    But T vs F doesent mean that F types are all less thinkers than T types, its just that they automatically approach things more with F, but can be much better at using T than an average thinker. For example(and pulling numbers which are not percentages out of my ass) some F person might be like 85 T and 90 F, while average T might be 75 T and 30 F.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    logic? no. sense? yes.
    Sense makes far too many generalizations, inferences, and unproven assumptions.

  4. #34
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    There is one dynamic in which I resist logic: It is when much relevant information has to be discarded in order for the logical approach to work. It is convenient to use logic when all the data that goes into the problem can be defined, measured and known. Very few aspects of life can be reduced to a logical syllogism without dismissing a great deal of the true complexity of the situation, without relying on generalizations. Consequences in the world result from so many different sources, so while I can agree with a specific series of logical cause-and-effect, I can also notice that it doesn't address the entire system. Many of the ideologies of the 20th century had quite solid logical underpinnings and yet the application caused great misery, unforeseen consequences, and failure.

    Logic is often used in this over-simplified manner and becomes much like aspects of modern medicine that looks at the fix of one isolated organ or symptom without looking at the entire system. That approach to 'logic' is what rules so much of our world. The corporation must make money for the stockholder and can create A-B to make that happen without examining the effects on the larger systems in the world. That immature, careless use of logic is tiresome because, yes, the isolated logic can be correct, but within the larger context can be wrong and have unforeseen effects.

    Try to convince an ego invested T with logic and you can see the results demonstrated across so many forums online. It's extremely rare I've ever seen a T convince another T of anything online *using logic*. It can certainly happen, but the reality is that ego is a far greater obstacle to reason than the cognitive processing of an F.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
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  5. #35
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    Feelings is a part of logic anyway. Its part of the logical equation just as everything else can be part of the logical equation. I am confused that feelings and logic are opposites. Feelings are a huge part of reading people and logically understanding things. Just because you don't understand the equation doesn't mean that the parts you don't understand are the problem and don't belong...aka...feelings.

    If dad dies and person is emotional healthy then
    person cries due to sadness
    else if person has emotional what about me issues then
    person gets angry at dad for dying
    loop until person crashes - steam/yell/etc
    cry


    Just like logic gates AND/OR/XOR/NOR/NAND, those operate off of inputs, analog inputs must be converted to 1 and 0s, assuming you are not using 3 states. Input is data, input is not logic. Feelings are input. Yes you can feed logic with other logic, but at that point your feeding the outcome of logic, not the logic itself which is back to data
    Im out, its been fun
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  6. #36
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    logic does not exist for a f, they only communicate in emjoiis no true f's are on this forum just lesser t's or the internet
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  7. #37
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    Its fun to twist and play with logic because "sense" is based off of knowns, logic is based off of everything. It is actually very hard for me to not "generalize" logic, because my logic just grows AND grows AND grows. Becoming more and more complex due to data which spans into future and turns into possibility logic, because those that are connected to the real world know that everything is interconnected in one way or another cause and affect never really ends, it just all feeds each other in a complicated path and loops like roads. That's why I have to just generalize, step back and take reality into play for input, else it just feels like the N world of "what ifs"
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #38
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    If you can't convince people of something with a logical argument it doesn't just mean they are feelers, it's way worst then that. It means they are people. Most people won't be convinced by something unless it affirms their previously held beliefs. To be told you are right is a carrot, to be told you are wrong is a stick, and it's human nature to maneuver and rationalize itself accordingly.

    Which you should know, because you had an argument and instead of listening to the merit and counter arguments of the other side, you held to your previously existing belief that you must be right, concluded that not agreeing with you is not agreeing with logic, and went on to type and generalize them accordingly. Congratulations, you are most people.
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