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Thread: ESTJ VS ENTJ

  1. #1
    Member Chickennugget's Avatar
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    Default ESTJ VS ENTJ

    Hey guys. So I happen to like this EXTJ. Can't tell which one he is. I was wondering if you guys could help. Also, which one is the best for INFPs and why? Experiences are welcome

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    Socionics Dichotomies: R3t2Interpretation of Reality: Decisive vs Judicious

    ESTJ is Judicious, ENTJ is Decisive.
    Judicious types take more time to mentally prepare and "digest" tasks and situations. Their default state is relaxed; achieving a constant "working" state takes effort for them.
    Decisives immediately begin tasks with little mental preparation; achieving a resting state takes a conscious effort for them. Don't confuse this with Farsighted/Carefree.

    Socionics Dichotomies: R2t3
    ESTJ is Aristocratic, ENTJ is Democratic.
    Aristocratic types prefer smaller, more exclusive social groups; Democratics associate with anyone.

    Socionics Dichotomies: R4t1
    ESTJ is Asking, ENTJ is Declarative.
    Askers tend to dialogue and have trouble organizing their thoughts without the presence of another speaker to talk to. Declaratives tend to monologue and risk "drowning out" Askers.

    Socionics Dichotomies: R3t3
    ESTJ is Negativist, ENTJ is Positivist.
    Negativists look at what should be done; what isn't. Positivists look at what already has been done; what is. Don't confuse this with Farsighted/Carefree.

    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/r2t6
    ESTJ is Farsighted, ENTJ is Carefree.
    Farsighted types are always looking ahead for new objectives to "conquer" and accomplish; Carefree types tend to take their time. Don't confuse this with Judicious/Decisive or Static/Dynamic.

    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/r3t4
    ESTJ is Process, ENTJ is Results.
    Process types give more credit to tested methods than the results they yield; Result types care more about the tangible results yielded than how these results were yielded.

    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/r2t4
    ESTJ is Tactical, ENTJ is Strategic.
    Tacticals tend to reuse the same tried methods they've used in the past regardless of goals; Strategics look at the goals first and let the methods used to achieve them vary.


    EDIT -- Erotic Attitudes
    ESTJ is Caregiver (Si-ego), ENTJ is Victim (Ni-ego).

    ESTJs have little to no sense of "power" in sexual relationships. They are attracted to aesthetic and intellectual appeal of a partner, rather than intensity. Aggression in a partner discourages them. Their desire is to serve as a "teacher" to their partner, taking care of their practical needs.

    ENTJs fall under the "Victim" category of Ni-ego types, but their specific role is called "Pseudo-Aggressor." They have a strong distaste for being seen as weak or a "prize to be won" by their partners. As Victims, they desire a partner who actively seeks and pursues them without relent, but at the same time, they also take the approach of "questing for one's equal;" in this respect the ENTJ's role is like a combination of an strong Ni Victim role and a strong Se Aggressor role. They desire a partner that refuses to break under stress and continually pursues them to no end.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default ESTJ VS ENTJ

    Well that was absolutely fascinating Cygnus, I read all those dichotomies I found the last two process and results & tactical and strategic the interesting and surprising, perhaps buy then I had got a good Handel on the texture of the cognitive exercise.

    But what I found interesting most was the last dichotomy.

    I will speak for my self as an INFP 9w1 who knows the correlation of all 16 MBTI type + two for all eighteen enneagram subtype energies for my own enneagram.

    What I realised is that my subsidiary wings ( 2w1 ENFJ & 7w6 ESFP ) and point of Stress or dicsentergration 6w5 INTJ and shadow wing 9w8 INFJ exercise the Strategic. And My Core 9w1 and auxiliary 1w2 ESTJ and point of freedom or point of integration 3w2 ISTJ exercise the Tactile.

    I would have to go back and reread them all again to see if it is consistent with all the other dichotomies listed above, I was to busy in-visioning each of the sixteen types to see the caricaturists in action from recollection witch I found fascinating because frankly I could see and agree with all that was asserted.

    If I understood your question as an INFP witch one do I identify with ENTJ or ESTJ it is clearly ESTJ. I relate quite well with most ENTJ's I find them quite easy in general to understand and get along with and I think it is because I utilise the extended parts of my holiness beyond my INFP meaning my instinctual variant energies and my wings and when needed other aspects to identify with an other in this case the ENTJ at the general level of communications. depending upon there instinctual stack and activities as employment or vocation they can be very technical and highly pro fishnet within there cognitive abilities as the ESTJ but the difference is the ENTJ utilises NT were as the ESTJ utilises STJ.

    I would say the ENTJ is within the thinking triad and its auxiliary wing is within the relating triad and so there is a kinda multiplicity shock that can affect my cognition that divide between the two triads at points 7&8 and so the NT pro potties encompass a connection for what is generally a separate decide for me as a 9w1.

    If I utilise my Tri-type 9w8 4w5 5w6 I find it more comfortable to play phycological ping pong with 7w8 ENTJ's and get along quite well with them.

    We're as the ESTJ's sometimes have difficulty understanding me I never seem to have difficulty understanding them at least at the conches mood agenda level were as the ENTJ requires more effort and work and concentration to understand.

    I hope that answers you question chichennuget ,that so ENTJ. chicken nugget, Sp-NT.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 03-30-2015 at 06:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    NT = knowledge-centered
    SJ = authority-centered

    The difference is palpable.

    Temperament Theory
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    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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    ESTJ is more focused on the concrete (people, situations, and things).

    ENTJ is more focused on the abstract (concepts, possibilities, and ideas).

    Anything beyond that is over-complicating things.
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  6. #6
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    ENTJ is so obvious..
    They like to rule.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  7. #7
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    I've always had trouble with ESTJ vs ENTJ myself. I'm trying to figure out my friend's type, and I'm stuck between the two.

    I don't personally believe in what types are better for each other. I think people are far too varying to be stuck like that. No person can be generalized like that. Just my opinion.
    Yet I know, if I stepped aside
    Released the controls, you would open my eyes
    That somehow, all of this mess
    Is just my attempt to know the worth of my life
    .

    Mercury - Sleeping At Last

    3w2 // 6w7 // 9w1

  8. #8
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    I am an ENTJ in an ESTJ world.

    ESTJ's do not like talking about things, I've noticed, that do not involve how to improve work. ENTJ's relative to others seem this way too but relative to the ESTJ they will entertain other abstract things.

    They make consider diviniation, for example, as a way to gain a business leverage. AN ESTJ would NEVER, EVER talk about anything in the realm of anthropology, religion, etc.....in a working environment.

    As an accountant the profession is 90 percent ESTJ/ISTJ and 9 percent ENTJ/INTJ....and 1 percent miscellaneous....and even those who get in the field indirectly tend to be ESTJ and ISTJ since thsoe are really the only two personalities that can do this sort of work.

    There are virtually no ENTP's in this profession...there probably 1 in a million.

    This is based on a study...so I'm speaking according to facts here...not whim.

    An ESTJ would get angry and frustrated if you began speaking about things at work that did not pertain to the task. AN ENTJ would be happy to talk about them and then blame you later for wasting his time.

    I've worked for an ESTJ and an ENTJ too...the ENTJ does not micromanage but he also neglects the worker...the ESTJ micromanages like crazy but he will do his best to imrpove your situation if what you ask for makes sense. Otherwise he will belittle or yell at you with his indifference and mocking attitude.

    ESTJ's are about mastering practical work flow processes...and ENTJ"s tend to try to innovate.

    The truth is most CEO's are probably ESTJ, not necessarily ENTJ...but we hear about the ENTJ ones because they are louder and require more self-aggrandizement of all the mbti types, they are most likely to be NPD.

    I have learned to be an ESTJ/ISTJ to survive. An ENTJ once did well as a self-employed individual but as the economy evolves bigger companies are starting to rule and small middle class business are being wiped out. An ENTJ respects routine but does not thrive off it like an ESTJ. An ESTJ eats routine and shits routine day in and day night...they love that stuff...it's like sweet bread for them....ask them to do something different and they will melt down...

    As an ENTJ it has been tough adapting to an ESTJ world...corporations are mostly ESTJ in nature - routine work done day in and day out...but out of all the nt's the ENTJ is best at adapting to the ESTJ world and as a result have a good upside...and hence become managers easily after a while...

    But as I said, most CEO's are actually istj/estj...not intj or entj...

    Here's a good test

    If someone likes routine they are not ENTJ. ENTJ's do not LIKE routine...they honor it and know it is a powerful thing....repitition is the mother of success....but they do not look forward to it and it is difficult for them.

    If the person likes routine...they are definitely ISTJ or ESTJ...no doubt about it.

    Second, how are they with details. ENTJ's suck with details...as an ENTJ who has gone the way of supercritical detail mastery I can tell you Ihad to walk through the fires of hell and individuate 20 years ahead of my time to adapt and survive...

    AN ESTJ/ISTJ is a master of details...they can look at five expense reports and tell you why the balance of an account is off in a matter of minutes.

    The ENTJ has to consider what each expense report is theoretically first before he can master the work...different approach, same result...but the business world does not care for theory....it cares only for results...so all business environments for the most part are ESTJ...a corporation is like a military institution first, and anything else second.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    I am an ENTJ in an ESTJ world.

    ESTJ's do not like talking about things, I've noticed, that do not involve how to improve work. ENTJ's relative to others seem this way too but relative to the ESTJ they will entertain other abstract things.

    They make consider diviniation, for example, as a way to gain a business leverage. AN ESTJ would NEVER, EVER talk about anything in the realm of anthropology, religion, etc.....in a working environment.
    ENTJ is Gamma Se-valuing. They have even less tolerance for theory than Deltans.

    ESTJ still values Ne. It's weak, it's Mobilizing, but it's there, and dualization makes it stronger. Not the case for ENTJ.

  10. #10
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    ENTJ is Gamma Se-valuing. They have even less tolerance for theory than Deltans.

    ESTJ still values Ne. It's weak, it's Mobilizing, but it's there, and dualization makes it stronger. Not the case for ENTJ.
    I think we misunderstand each other because I am speaking on mbti and Jungian typology and you are speaking on socionics which I have very vague impressions of but do not understand what so ever due to the misleading nature of the tittles of categories and how to tries to frame things...i think something is lost in translation...someone told me socionics is Russian in origin.

    In MBTI ESTJ is not theoretical as much as ENTJ...and as a trade off ENTJ is not as detail oriented as ESTJ, if we do an analysis of differences between them....the ESTJ probably is more theoretical, however than let's say an ESFP....speaking in terms theory of course.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

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