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  1. #1
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Default Question about Extroverted Sensing

    If I am aware of the physical environment around me, does this mean I am using Se?

    Like, say I look around the room or the surrounding area, and just become aware of the details... like now I'm looking at this object, now this one. And suppose I also notice this in my body, how I become more physically engaged, walking over to get a clearer view of something. Is this all Se?

    And suppose I have to make a deliberate effort to get into this state, or that it can also be activated if I enter particularly pleasant surroundings such as trees, but otherwise I am more absorbed by my thoughts and the surroundings are only vaguely present in the background.

    And also suppose that when activating this state of mind, I soon feel like going out and doing something, like just being in familiar surroundings is not enough, I need more stimulation.

    What does this mean?

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    None of that is extraverted sensing, but this is one trait that extraverted sensors often have(but other types can be like this too):

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    just being in familiar surroundings is not enough, I need more stimulation.
    Extraverted sensing or introverted sensing or any other function isnt some thing that a person does, likes to do or a trait, they are attitudes(habitual ways of responding to things).

    What tells Si and Se apart is that Se is oriented by the strength of sensory stimulation, so Se users automatically focus on strongest sensory stimulation and also tend to have good eye on details because they have trained their sensory focus so much. S in general is basically just your conscious perception of sensory data. Si on the other hand focuses habitually on things that have some inner meaning and not so much based on what is physically the strongest stimuli. This is why Si users(or types with dom/aux Si attitude, tert/inferior attitude of Si often gets shadowed by dom/aux Ne attitude and doesent come up so often) often prefer familiar things or doing something again, again and again to something new all the time. But again doing something familiar doesent equal Si, liking familiar things is a trait, not a function, Si is just an introverted attitude towards information sent through your sense organs.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #3
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    None of that is extraverted sensing, but this is one trait that extraverted sensors often have(but other types can be like this too):
    What would you say it's due to then? I mean, I felt that way in response to focusing on the physical environment, so I just sorta guessed that I was using Se or something.

    Extraverted sensing or introverted sensing or any other function isnt some thing that a person does, likes to do or a trait, they are attitudes(habitual ways of responding to things).
    So, am I wrong in thinking that it's something that you can "activate" e.g. if I pay attention to my surroundings, am I turning up my sensing? And similarly for getting into a "mode" with the other functions.

    What tells Si and Se apart is that Se is oriented by the strength of sensory stimulation, so Se users automatically focus on strongest sensory stimulation and also tend to have good eye on details because they have trained their sensory focus so much. S in general is basically just your conscious perception of sensory data. Si on the other hand focuses habitually on things that have some inner meaning and not so much based on what is physically the strongest stimuli. This is why Si users(or types with dom/aux Si attitude, tert/inferior attitude of Si often gets shadowed by dom/aux Ne attitude and doesent come up so often) often prefer familiar things or doing something again, again and again to something new all the time. But again doing something familiar doesent equal Si, liking familiar things is a trait, not a function, Si is just an introverted attitude towards information sent through your sense organs.
    Is this Si?: Say, I'm going for a walk, but not to anywhere in particular. What I'll do say, is look at the different ways I can go and "choose" based on which direction looks the most appealing to me. Something about the feeling I get from looking over in that direction, maybe it's somewhere I've seen before but haven't gone. The path will seem cool, or interesting, or mysterious, or what have you.

    That's obviously (?) not an example of something habitual, since it'll often be somewhere totally new. It's not the physically strongest stimuli since it's so subjective, it depends on my experience and tastes. It's definitely based on some kind of internal meaning though. I've thought to myself while I was doing it that I must have been using Si but I'm not sure if that's what it is or not.

  4. #4
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    What would you say it's due to then? I mean, I felt that way in response to focusing on the physical environment, so I just sorta guessed that I was using Se or something.



    So, am I wrong in thinking that it's something that you can "activate" e.g. if I pay attention to my surroundings, am I turning up my sensing? And similarly for getting into a "mode" with the other functions.



    Is this Si?: Say, I'm going for a walk, but not to anywhere in particular. What I'll do say, is look at the different ways I can go and "choose" based on which direction looks the most appealing to me. Something about the feeling I get from looking over in that direction, maybe it's somewhere I've seen before but haven't gone. The path will seem cool, or interesting, or mysterious, or what have you.

    That's obviously (?) not an example of something habitual, since it'll often be somewhere totally new. It's not the physically strongest stimuli since it's so subjective, it depends on my experience and tastes. It's definitely based on some kind of internal meaning though. I've thought to myself while I was doing it that I must have been using Si but I'm not sure if that's what it is or not.

    Whole typology is about attitudes(habitual ways of responding to something, like habitually choosing to follow your own logic instead of someone elses if they dont go together, or habitually focus on strongest sensation instead of the one with most subjective meaning), not whether you "use some function". A common misunderstanding about functions is that Ti, Te, Se, Si etc are the functions, whih in untrue, functions are S, N, T and F. Si and Se for example are different attitudes towards sensation. Both use sense-perception(read the quote from jung), but they habitually approach sensations in different ways. It doesent mean that type which prefers Si cant see a really bright light that has no personal meaning to him, it just means that he isnt habitually focusing on the strongest sensation, but to subjective portion of sensation. Like wise Fi type is able to follow social norms etc. which is what Fe types do habitually. Fi types just doesent follow them as readily and need stronger social norms or pressures, or then some subjective reason to follow it.

    Here are some quotes from Jung Psychological Types - Wikisocion :

    Sensing in general(not Si or Se, but S):

    Sensation, or sensing, is that psychological function which transmits a physical stimulus to perception.. sensation is sense-perception, i.e. perception transmitted via the sense organs and 'bodily senses' (kinæsthetic, vaso-motor sensation, etc.).
    Sensing with extraverted attitude:

    Sensation, in the extraverted attitude, is most definitely conditioned by the object. As sense-perception, sensation is naturally dependent upon the object. But, just as naturally, it is also dependent upon the subject; hence, there is also a subjective sensation, which after its kind is entirely different from the objective. In the extraverted attitude this subjective share of sensation, in so far as its conscious application is concerned, is either inhibited or repressed. As an irrational function, sensation is equally repressed, whenever a rational function, thinking or feeling, possesses the priority, ie. it can be said to have a conscious function, only in so far as the rational attitude of consciousness permits accidental perceptions to become conscious contents; in short, realizes them. The function of sense is, of course, absolute in the stricter sense; for example, everything is seen or heard to the farthest physiological possibility, but not everything attains that threshold value which a perception must possess in order to be also apperceived. It is a different matter when sensation itself possesses priority, instead of merely seconding another function. In this case, no element of objective sensation is excluded and nothing repressed (with the exception of the subjective share already mentioned). Sensation has a preferential objective determination, and those objects which release the strongest sensation are decisive for the individual's psychology. The result of this is a pronounced sensuous hold to the object. Sensation, therefore, is a vital function, equipped with the potentest [sic] vital instinct. In so far as objects release sensations, they matter; and, in so far as it lies within the power of sensation, they are also fully accepted into consciousness, whether compatible with reasoned judgment or not. As a function its sole criterion of value is the strength of the sensation as conditioned by its objective qualities. Accordingly, all objective processes, in so far as they release sensations at all, make their appearance in consciousness. It is, however, only concrete, sensuously perceived objects or processes which excite sensations in the extraverted attitude; exclusively those, in fact, which everyone in all times and places would sense as concrete. Hence, the orientation of such an individual corresponds with purely concrete reality. The judging, rational functions are subordinated to the concrete facts of sensation, and, accordingly, possess the qualities of inferior differentiation, i.e. they are marked by a certain negativity, with infantile and archaic tendencies. The function most affected by the repression, is, naturally, the one standing opposite to sensation, viz. intuition, the function of unconscious perception.
    Sensing with introverted attitude:

    Sensation, which in obedience to its whole nature is concerned with the object and the objective stimulus, also undergoes a considerable modification in the introverted attitude. It, too, has a subjective factor, for beside the object sensed there stands a sensing subject, who contributes his subjective disposition to the objective stimulus. In the introverted attitude sensation is definitely based upon the subjective portion of perception. What is meant by this finds its best illustration in the reproduction of objects in art. When, for instance, several painters undertake to paint one and the same landscape, with a sincere attempt to reproduce it faithfully, each painting will none the less differ from the rest, not merely by virtue of a more or less developed ability, but chiefly because of a different vision; there will even appear in some of the paintings a decided psychic variation, both in general mood and in treatment of colour and form. Such qualities betray a more or less influential cooperation of the subjective factor. The subjective factor of sensation is essentially the same as in the other functions already spoken of. It is an unconscious disposition, which alters the sense-perception at its very source, thus depriving it of the character of a purely objective influence. In this case, sensation is related primarily to the subject, and only secondarily to the object. How extraordinarily strong the subjective factor can be is shown most clearly in art. The ascendancy of the subjective factor occasionally achieves a complete suppression of the mere influence of the object; but none the less sensation remains sensation, although it has come to be a perception of the subjective factor, and the effect of the object has sunk to the level of a mere stimulant. Introverted sensation develops in accordance with this subjective direction. A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus. Subjective perception differs remarkably from the objective. It is either not found at all in the object, or, at most, merely suggested by it; it can, however, be similar to the sensation of other men, although not immediately derived from the objective behaviour of things. It does not impress one as a mere product of consciousness—it is too genuine for that. But it makes a definite psychic impression, since elements of a higher psychic order are perceptible to it. This order, however, does not coincide with the contents of consciousness. It is concerned with presuppositions, or dispositions of the collective unconscious, with mythological images, with primal possibilities of ideas. The character of significance and meaning clings to subjective perception. It says more than the mere image of the object, though naturally only to him for whom the subjective factor has some meaning. To another, a reproduced subjective impression seems to suffer from the defect of possessing insufficient similarity with the object; it seems, therefore, to have failed in its purpose. Subjective sensation apprehends the background of the physical world rather than its surface. The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them. Such a consciousness would see the becoming and the passing of things beside their present and momentary existence, and not only that, but at the same time it would also see that Other, which was before their becoming and will be after their passing hence. To this consciousness the present moment is improbable. This is, of course, only a simile, of which, however, I had need to give some sort of illustration of the peculiar nature of introverted sensation. Introverted sensation conveys an image whose effect is not so much to reproduce the object as to throw over it a wrapping whose lustre is derived from age-old subjective experience and the still unborn future event. Thus, mere sense impression develops into the depth of the meaningful, while extraverted sensation seizes only the momentary and manifest existence of things.
    I cant say what type you are, but maybe this info helps you.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #5
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I cant say what type you are, but maybe this info helps you.
    This thread isn't to type myself. I am 95% sure that I'm Si dominant. I was just exploring some ideas I had about the functions.

    I haven't read through all your post yet so I'll probably reply with more questions a bit later :P

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