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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Could you expand? Why would you wish for innocence? Would that not also be akin to ignorance? Kind of like wishing you didn't speak the same language as someone who you don't like...
    I mean it would be nice to get to know who they are without knowing anything about their type at all, with the innocence of a child learning the mystery of another human being.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violett View Post
    I mean it would be nice to get to know who they are without knowing anything about their type at all, with the innocence of a child learning the mystery of another human being.
    One of the most intelligent statements I have encountered on this forum.
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  3. #23
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violett View Post
    I mean it would be nice to get to know who they are without knowing anything about their type at all, with the innocence of a child learning the mystery of another human being.
    The way I see it, I'm discovering a person but instead of describing them as Dave and to anyone else they're a Dave I can relate what kind of person they are with fewer words and greater clarity. Of course they won't know Dave till they meet him but they'll have some insight.

    After all, most people tend to call someone "reliable" or "argumentative" and then you find that the next person has a completely different take. The problem is its like describing a meal as "nice". It means the world to you but virtually nothing to anyone else.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #24
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    U guys got it all wrong mbti is inborn forever lifelong and determines your destiny. That's why it's useful cuz for example EXTJs would be the luckiest and INFPs suffer failure.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Should check this forum more often, heh. Typing is difficult until you get a feel for how each type works and manifests. It's a process that's very difficult to describe, though I did record a video recently of how I approach it where I vocalize my thoughts more directly instead of just providing a summary:


    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    After all, most people tend to call someone "reliable" or "argumentative" and then you find that the next person has a completely different take.
    I was reading an ENTP's post from years ago and thought nothing of it. An ENFP read the same post and flipped their lid telling him to chill out, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out why. You'd think he just clubbed a baby seal based on the ENFP's reaction. I didn't view him as argumentative at all, but she did.
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  7. #27
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    Should check this forum more often, heh. Typing is difficult until you get a feel for how each type works and manifests. It's a process that's very difficult to describe, though I did record a video recently of how I approach it where I vocalize my thoughts more directly instead of just providing a summary:

    What about if people fit the pattern because of pressures to conform to that pattern?

    And what was that about "fits the definition that you want to work with"? What does that mean? You just make it up as it suits?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    What about if people fit the pattern because of pressures to conform to that pattern?

    And what was that about "fits the definition that you want to work with"? What does that mean? You just make it up as it suits?
    I've never run into a person who can emulate cognition to such a degree that you can't tell whether it is their innate disposition or not. I don't find that's the case. People can hide it as in, not openly vocalize it, but it will slip through anyway. When I look at patterns, I look at what seems to belie their words, what kind of worldview and how they orient themselves towards the world that they ultimately harbor.

    And no, I don't come up with definitions on the fly but I operate with the definitions that Jung originally laid out. I may incorporate other sources such as socionics as well.

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  9. #29
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    I've never run into a person who can emulate cognition to such a degree that you can't tell whether it is their innate disposition or not. I don't find that's the case. People can hide it as in, not openly vocalize it, but it will slip through anyway. When I look at patterns, I look at what seems to belie their words, what kind of worldview and how they orient themselves towards the world that they ultimately harbor.

    And no, I don't come up with definitions on the fly but I operate with the definitions that Jung originally laid out. I may incorporate other sources such as socionics as well.
    That method of recognition just sounds like personal taste, which is what pretty much everyone does with these systems to some extent. And Jung's definitions are a bit wandering and open to some debate, although some of it is clear cut; I need to go over Psychological Types for a clear example.

    To be fair you did say the method was difficult to describe but I didn't really retain what you were saying in that video, might need to watch it again.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #30
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Sometimes people conform to pressures not out of choice but out of conditioning. Those are hard to spot.

    I go back to the example of an ENFP spending hours cramping his hand drawing exacting patterns over and over. Showing signs of ocd, which would be very odd for a P.

    His behaviour fitted more of an ENFJ or perhaps an ENTJ. The things that betrayed him were small characteristics shown up in his MBTI type. I'm not sure how it would have been spotted using the functions or trying to guess how his mind was making the thoughts.

    In the end the telltale was his test result which showed a minor preference for J. With what was known of him and the tenancy for those showing a minor preference for J actually being P (apparently a true J tends to show a clear preference for it, it's us Ps who waver... No shock there) the assessor typed him as ENFP. Once he'd read the description he agreed, which is the best for on confirmation.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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