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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post

    So after all that and more I'm confused. Ask him to state an opinion and he's always saying "it depends" which seems classical P but the rest of his behaviour is almost text book J. Now I've stopped short of enquiring if he was abused (see I have learned this tact nonsense) but I am wondering how the opposites live in what seems like a self assured individual.

    That reminds me, my ENFJ boss asked me to speak to him about not being a "team player" because he keeps to himself and doesn't really engage unless provoked, kind of tail up and head down. Now he took great offense at this siting that he always helping people when they ask and does as he's asked and that surely he's doing well to not engage in office chit chat.

    So bearing in mind the above...anyone know much about Polish culture from a typology side, seeing as how environment affects the expression of type. Anyone know anyone who displays similar behaviour who they think they have typed right?

    Oh and a could apologise or make nice about the opening of this post but it'd only dilute the concept and I'd spend half the time apologising for being confrontational...hence, in this case, I consider it counter productive. So yeah, sorry if it bends you out of shape, feel free to comment below about the content and I'll be more reasonable in my responses.
    I agree it is hard to type people. The best way I've seen it done is with a high quality test followed up with an interview from a knowledgeable practitioner and them to suggest what you appear to be (not definitive).

    As to how to type other people, I think you can use a few methods in combination. Central to all of it is listening to how they communicate because it gives you clues as to how their mind operates.
    - Seek to understand/guess their temperament: SJ, NT, SP, NF; it's pretty imperfect but I think you can usually narrow it down to two of the four
    - Look for evidence of the 8 cognitive functions in their communication and in particular, what cognitive functions appear to be utilized and how commonly are they utilized; it's a lot easier to recognize the extraverted functions but there are clues as to whether or not they prefer Fi vs Fe or Si vs Se or Ni vs Ne or Ti vs Te.
    - Try to figure out which function is dominant and which one is auxiliary; I admit that I look at I/E to help determine this but it's not perfect as you stated above

    Between those three, I can usually get a decent idea. I just talked to someone on the phone today and could pretty much tell they were an NF right off the bat. I'm not sure which one - probably INFJ. It's a guess.

    So what I do is to come up with some guesses and then look for evidence to narrow it down. Still, I find it difficult.

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  2. #12
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I agree it is hard to type people. The best way I've seen it done is with a high quality test followed up with an interview from a knowledgeable practitioner and them to suggest what you appear to be (not definitive).
    Oh that's true. That's how my example ENFP was typed. By conversation it was established that his 'P' had been crushed when he was young and so he displayed an unhealthy J as a result but the test revealed he was borderline. Further investigation cleared it up.
    As to how to type other people, I think you can use a few methods in combination.
    I completely agree. I realise that my opener sounded kind of judgy but it's tended to be in the past that without a clear challenge people will just ignore what's said and I've seen some very poor typing being widely supported on here. It's kind of a principle to me that this place should be trying to do it right, even when just having fun.
    Central to all of it is listening to how they communicate because it gives you clues as to how their mind operates.
    True though I would hasten to add that it's not always confirmation you're looking for. Sometimes you look for someone to appear like one type except for some small detail which reveals their truer nature such as an ISTJ host who will likely appear quite ENFP in communication style only to betray themselves by continuing into detail past the endurance of their audience.
    - Seek to understand/guess their temperament: SJ, NT, SP, NF; it's pretty imperfect but I think you can usually narrow it down to two of the four
    - Look for evidence of the 8 cognitive functions in their communication and in particular, what cognitive functions appear to be utilized and how commonly are they utilized; it's a lot easier to recognize the extraverted functions but there are clues as to whether or not they prefer Fi vs Fe or Si vs Se or Ni vs Ne or Ti vs Te.
    - Try to figure out which function is dominant and which one is auxiliary; I admit that I look at I/E to help determine this but it's not perfect as you stated above
    There is would disagree. The temperaments are helpful but if you fixate too much on your first idea you can then spend a long time just trying to find evidence to support a faulty theory. I get what you mean about getting to one or two possibilities but I've seen so many assume they are right and miss the whole story unfolding in front of them.

    Also I worry about this whole function analysis. Telling the difference between F and T in isolation isn't easy. You get cold and negative Fs and warm, positive Ts. People seem to put too much stock in the default descriptions and jot look at how they could play out which then warms their results to confirm their own bias.
    Between those three, I can usually get a decent idea. I just talked to someone on the phone today and could pretty much tell they were an NF right off the bat. I'm not sure which one - probably INFJ. It's a guess.

    So what I do is to come up with some guesses and then look for evidence to narrow it down. Still, I find it difficult.
    Yeah I tend to find I can intuit a person's type with a certain degree of accuracy and then set about proving or disproving it. Most often, without a test, I end up not deciding upon a type but I don't really care because I find that I understand the person better which was my original intention anyway.

    Do you think that people go too brash and brazen with typing, full of the confidence in their learning but without the benefit of the wisdom that comes with practice?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post

    There is would disagree. The temperaments are helpful but if you fixate too much on your first idea you can then spend a long time just trying to find evidence to support a faulty theory. I get what you mean about getting to one or two possibilities but I've seen so many assume they are right and miss the whole story unfolding in front of them.

    Also I worry about this whole function analysis. Telling the difference between F and T in isolation isn't easy. You get cold and negative Fs and warm, positive Ts. People seem to put too much stock in the default descriptions and jot look at how they could play out which then warms their results to confirm their own bias.
    I'm not saying you should fixate too much on temperaments. I actually favor the cognitive functions. You don't need to worry about whether or not someone is a J or P or T or F. You just look at the functions they are expressing through the words coming out of their mouth. It's concrete evidence. Ne and Te are examples of functions that tend to be relatively obvious for example. Ni is probably the hardest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post

    Yeah I tend to find I can intuit a person's type with a certain degree of accuracy and then set about proving or disproving it. Most often, without a test, I end up not deciding upon a type but I don't really care because I find that I understand the person better which was my original intention anyway.
    I generally just tolerate this ambiguity - like they are an ENFP or INFJ or INFP or ENFP. It still provides some useful data points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post

    Do you think that people go too brash and brazen with typing, full of the confidence in their learning but without the benefit of the wisdom that comes with practice?
    Yes, I think people are absolutely brash/brazen with this. There are however people who just seem to have a knack for it or that study and learn enough that they are seem relatively competent at it. @Kamishi started a thread a while back offering to type people via skype. He seemed to be pretty good at it, for example.

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  4. #14
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    it is hard to type others. especially people you don't know well. i very rarely participate in the typing of others. i think a large part of the problem is in the different perceptions people inevitably have. as with most things, i think a hollistic approach is best when self-typing. with each new angle the subject is approached with, new aspects are brought into light.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  5. #15
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    @highlander
    Have you ever encountered feedback style in your experience?

    For example I am positive feedback and thrive on being valued (as irksome as that can be in and of itself at times) whilst my sister (ENFJ) is herself almost despite and in spite of feedback.

    I'm interested because I've found it very useful in telling cold F from warm T and so forth but most on here have no clue what I'm on about and I'll be buggered if I can find the source material and yet I've experienced it first hand (really should ask where they get it from but I never remember to ask).
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #16
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    it is hard to type others. especially people you don't know well. i very rarely participate in the typing of others. i think a large part of the problem is in the different perceptions people inevitably have. as with most things, i think a hollistic approach is best when self-typing. with each new angle the subject is approached with, new aspects are brought into light.
    I agree with the holistic approach. I find there's more clarity in the whole person than within a subdivision, something which always feels arbitrary and false to me.

    However, I've been told (and found) that you can be too close to someone to type them well. I know a couple where one is a high energy ENFJ female and the other is a low energy ISTP male. If you know them really well you start to see his caring and cuddly side and her cold and acerbic side which only confuses what was before a nice clear image...even if it is as funny as all hell when they argue and both flip types in front of your eyes.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    @highlander
    Have you ever encountered feedback style in your experience?

    For example I am positive feedback and thrive on being valued (as irksome as that can be in and of itself at times) whilst my sister (ENFJ) is herself almost despite and in spite of feedback.

    I'm interested because I've found it very useful in telling cold F from warm T and so forth but most on here have no clue what I'm on about and I'll be buggered if I can find the source material and yet I've experienced it first hand (really should ask where they get it from but I never remember to ask).
    No, I've never used that.

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  8. #18
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    Sometimes its difficult to type others, and at other times their type just slaps you in the face when you aren't looking. Its at those times I wish I never knew about personality typing systems and long for innocence.
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  9. #19
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    No, I've never used that.
    Nuts.

    Back to the ole Google machine...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #20
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violett View Post
    Sometimes its difficult to type others, and at other times their type just slaps you in the face when you aren't looking. Its at those times I wish I never knew about personality typing systems and long for innocence.
    Could you expand? Why would you wish for innocence? Would that not also be akin to ignorance? Kind of like wishing you didn't speak the same language as someone who you don't like...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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