User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 38

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default Converging Personality Type Systems

    According to a website called business balls.com and other various online resources (which I won't bore you with right now), most modern personality systems are just refined variants of the age-old temperament theory. It has bothered me ever since I started studying MBTI as to how these various systems fit together.

    I mean while I know there are technically infinite variations on human cognitive processes, behavior, etc., it seems to reason that in some very basic ways, they must converge. There must be basic patterns where a particular arrangement of cognitive functions provide an inclination toward certain behaviors, or where certain temperaments give way to particular sets of cognitive functions. (I say this because patterns and sequences make up the very framework of our existence, DNA, for example.)

    I know this topic has been discussed on here before, but I want to hear your thoughts again, ESPECIALLY if you have been studying it for several years and if you have delved into various systems. Before learning of MBTI, I spent many hours researching the Four Temperaments theory. And now, my aunt has introduced me to the color theory, which is nothing but temperament under a new name. I have purposely left out the supine temperament, as I believe it can be accounted for within various secondary combos of extroverted and introverted tendencies.

    This stuff woke me up at the crack of dawn and I couldn't get it out of my head, so I had to write it down. I have been pecking away on this iPad for the past two hours, trying to fit the puzzle pieces together. I can provide reasoning for my conclusions; just be aware that it will take me a while to bring them from the abstract into the concrete. I submit these temporary conclusions to you, in hopes that others can also provide reasoning and insight, help me correct the flaws in my theory. I'm not married to it, I just want to formulate a concise picture in my understanding.

    Also, with all the things in the world to think about and spend my energy on, I honestly don't know why I keep digging at this. But it's as if there is something there, something intricate and once I grasp it, maybe I can explain it to others so they will grasp it, too, or maybe it will be one more file in my mental database of useless information, haha. I think personality studies should come with a warning label: addictive.

    Hartman color theory compared with Temperament theory, MBTI and Enneagram Theory.


    Red=Choleric=Enneagrams 8,1,
    * Cholerics are take-charge individuals, at the the core. They don't usually mind confrontation.

    Possible combos under Reds, aka, Cholerics
    Red/White
    ESTJ (Chlor/Mel)
    ENTJ (Chlor/Mel)
    Enneagram 8w9

    Red/Blue
    ENFJ (Chlor/Phleg)
    ESFJ (Chlor/Phleg)
    Enneagram 8w9

    Red/Yellow
    ESTP (Chlor/San)
    ENTP (Chlor/San)
    Enneagram 8w7

    Yellow=Sanguine=Enneagrams 3,7

    *Sanguines are playful and energetic for the most part.

    Possible combos under Yellows, aka Sanguines
    Yellow/Red
    ESTP & ENTP, depending on their penchant toward Choleric or Sanguine tendencies.
    Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 8w9, 8w7, 7w8, 7w6

    Yellow/Blue
    ESFP (San/Phleg)
    ENFP (San/Phleg)
    Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 3w4, 3w2, 7w6...maybe 7w8

    Yellow/White
    ENFJ (San/Mel)
    ESFJ (San/Mel)
    Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 3w4, 3w2, 7w6


    Blue=Phlegmatic=Enneagrams 2,4,6,5

    *Phlegmatics are predominantly easy-going introverts. They often dislike confrontation.

    Possible combos under Blue, aka Phlegmatics

    Blue/White
    INTP (Phleg/Mel) Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 5w6,5w4

    INFP (Phleg/Mel) Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 4w5, 2w3, 4w3,
    Some INxPs may also be a 9. (Also, some INFPs may have a playful secondary or tertiary sanguine temperament.)

    Blue/Yellow

    ISFP (Phleg/San) Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 2,4,6 with all their various wings.

    Blue/Red
    ISFJ (Phleg/Chlor)
    Some INFJs fall into this category.
    Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 2w1, 1w2,1w9,9w1,9w8

    White=Melancholy=Enneagrams 1,5,6,9

    *Melancholies are introverted creators.

    Possible combos under White, aka Melancholies

    White/Red
    ISTJ (Mel/Chlor) Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 1s.
    INTJ(Mel/Chlor) Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 9s, 5s & 6s.

    White/Yellow
    Some INFPs and INTPs may fall into this category. (Mel/San)
    Likely Enneagrams include predominantly 4s & 5s.

    White/Blue
    INFJ (Mel/Phleg)
    Enneagram 4&9 variations are prevalent among this breed of INFJs
    Last edited by Ene; 02-24-2015 at 08:13 AM.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
    Likes highlander liked this post

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Eek, to anyone who may have read it just now and gotten a bunch of repeated stuff within a single post, I apologize. I went to edit on the ipad and screwed it up. So, I've gone back and fixed it. Hopefully, it will make a little bit of sense now.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #3
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    I find it interesting that INTJ is matched with 9, 5 and 6, even as I still hear how unlikely it is that I could possibly be both a 9 and an INTJ.

    As for temperament theory in general, I think it has more in common with Keirsey and the Big Five than MBTI or Enneagram.

    Both Keirsey and Big Five are primarily concerned with personality. The tests for both of these strike me as being along the lines of asking "What color shirt do you usually wear?" and you answer "red". Then the test results tell you, "You are a red-shirt-wearing person."

    I mean, REALLY?! The only thing your test can tell me about my personality is what I tell it?

    The MBTI and Enneagram are more subtle, in that the personality aspect isn't the primary focus. MBTI was originally designed with the idea of determining which Jungian functions were at play in your psyche, so while it nominally determines your personality, it really tries to determine "how you think". Similarly, while the Enneagram tries to sort your personality, the real goal isn't to determine your personality, so much as use your personality as a basis for determining "how you cope".

    Personality is just the most obvious gateway to determining the rest.

    I would say that the "convergence" of all these personality systems is superficial, as each and every one is trying to determine "personality". The real question, to me, is whether the system tells me anything NEW.

    And sometimes, one's personality doesn't match up that closely, especially with Enneagram, as several personality types tend to identify with various different Enneagram types. Then you need to look more closely. E.g., MBTI might give you INTx, and you're unsure of J vs P. INTJs and INTPs have very similar personalities, but how they think differs by quite a degree. So suddenly you need to figure out the functions in order to determine INTJ vs INTP, instead of the other way around. Same with Enneagram. If I had to rely on personality for Enneagram, I'd probably settle on 5w6, since I'm an INTJ and have a generally INTJ-ish personality. But I don't identify with 5w6 at all, even though it superficially describes my personality.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Just tossing in the color-code white paper I found, where it mentions MBTI and Maslow.
    http://www.colorcode.com/media/whitepaper.pdf

    Also:
    Two-factor models of personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,889

    Default

    I really like this topic and will post more on it a bit later. It will take me a while to compose.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  6. #6

    Default

    subscribed
    Masculine presenting transgender lesbian


    At heart, I’ll always be a bleeding heart liberal.

  7. #7
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    On usual pedantic fashion, it will all point the same way because they are methods of describing the same thing.

    The problem I see you've got here, in my estimation, is that you're trying to further refine a person's definition through a system. I've found that it never works out neatly and is probably best left at an unfocused level to allow for the maximum variation within each label.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    @Jenniferthank you for the sources. I will read them and try to get back to everyone tonight.

    I have several thoughts on it.

    I do want to say, @uumlau that I am curious as to the reasoning people give that an INTJ cannot be a 9. Is it sound? Is it backed by any evidence or experts in the field?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I do want to say that I am curious as to the reasoning people give that an INTJ cannot be a 9. Is it sound? Is it backed by any evidence or experts in the field?
    I'm actually curious why people would think INTJ's *would* be E9's. The two styles seem to be rather contractory to me. A 1w9? Maybe. 1 seems reasonable for INJs. But not a root 9. IxxP seems a better fit for someone who naturally flexes away from conflict and is seeking to smooth things over all the time, that's not really a Te thing.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Does seek to smooth things over naturally equate to a talent for doing so?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes uumlau, Ene, Jaguar liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] Typology Central Members Personality Type Survey
    By Nonpareil in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 570
    Last Post: 11-11-2017, 09:46 PM
  2. Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-16-2017, 01:05 AM
  3. Personality Types and Music
    By SuperServal in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 102
    Last Post: 10-15-2012, 06:37 PM
  4. [INFP] INFP personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 07-22-2012, 09:06 PM
  5. Personality Type and Growth
    By heart in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-13-2009, 05:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO