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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    If you don't think Fe yields authority, then I think your understanding of what we discuss as functional Fe is very limited.
    P.S > I actually said that Fe-s can surely act like a harsh authority making you conform (e.g. the Fe mom example who bosses you around), and..... I said that "their inner master" is some moral code / values / principles. In that part I don't see any conflict in the common consensus, as the consensus for Fe is surely that they are morals/value-driven. So there is no "insult" to the common consensus in this part of the story at least.

    My theory was not about what is below them (e.g. you, in case of your mom), but what is above them (logic? moral code? a person? a collective?).
    The question is: What is controlling them? (instead of: in what way or how are they controlling).

  2. #12
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Researcher View Post
    P.S > I actually said that Fe-s can surely act like a harsh authority making you conform (e.g. the Fe mom example who bosses you around), and..... I said that "their inner master" is some moral code / values / principles. In that part I don't see any conflict in the common consensus, as the consensus for Fe is surely that they are morals/value-driven. So there is no "insult" to the common consensus in this part of the story at least.

    My theory was not about what is below them (e.g. you, in case of your mom), but what is above them (logic? moral code? a person? a collective?).
    The question is: What is controlling them? (instead of: in what way or how are they controlling).
    Thanks for your replies and let's dig deeper then, as you say.

    A hypothesis, being "a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation" first requires the provision of limited evidence as a base. Where is your evidence in this thread? No one here is interested in making your argument for you. Provide the basis for your hypothesis. (Aside from your subjective opinion and as evidenced here your understanding of cognitive functions. An interpretation of Jung's literature is not an argument, and if that IS the basis of this discussion I would require you to lay down your interpretive definitions first in order that we are discussing things from an even and agreed upon starting point.)

    And, to look closer at your understanding of cognitive functions, a question: If Fe's "...'inner master' is some moral code / values / principles" what would you say is Fi's inner master?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Thanks for your replies and let's dig deeper then, as you say.

    A hypothesis, being "a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation" first requires the provision of limited evidence as a base. Where is your evidence in this thread? No one here is interested in making your argument for you. Provide the basis for your hypothesis. (Aside from your subjective opinion and as evidenced here your understanding of cognitive functions. An interpretation of Jung's literature is not an argument, and if that IS the basis of this discussion I would require you to lay down your interpretive definitions first in order that we are discussing things from an even and agreed upon starting point.)

    And, to look closer at your understanding of cognitive functions, a question: If Fe's "...'inner master' is some moral code / values / principles" what would you say is Fi's inner master?
    For Fi-s its their own inner feelings, not some outside moral code. Fe-s are good people if the moral code is good. But what if its not good moral code? This is the great thing about Fi-s, they will break wrong moral code, if it feels wrong. So they are not controlled by the moral code, like Fe-s are. Fi-s have their own stuff inside.
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  4. #14
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Researcher View Post
    Fi-s have their own stuff inside.
    Which is what, exactly?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #15
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    I can only add the following. The idea of a sociAl hierarchy I thought was Fe but I consulted a jungian therapist one day before Christmas and he mentioned to me that social hierarchy is Te based...the social hierarchy is a scientific fact and programmed into our deepest instincts and among the oldest natural constructs in our collective psyche. That being said, nature is not a democracy...point blank..it is for us to produce social justice and this is why we are considered divine among theosophists and different from animals.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  6. #16
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    The objective values of a group is Fe though...you really can't isolate any construct though to a particular cognitive function. All functions lead to every singular thing but some are more concious in the process. I'm being redundant, everyone here probably knows that.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Researcher View Post
    For Fi-s its their own inner feelings, not some outside moral code. Fe-s are good people if the moral code is good. But what if its not good moral code? This is the great thing about Fi-s, they will break wrong moral code, if it feels wrong. So they are not controlled by the moral code, like Fe-s are. Fi-s have their own stuff inside.
    So we all know Fi-s do not like to be controlled at all. So on the surface Fi-s are anti-authority. Thats why some people think I'm crazy if I include Fi in the Te authoritarian hierarchy. (As we all can see in the remarks above, in this thread)

    Because Fi-s are all about things that feel bad inside, like that annoying authority that should be opposed. So, if they are anti-authority, how can they be the functional part in an authoritarian/hierarchical society?

    To explain that, I have to explain how the shadow works (Te in case of Fi).
    About Fi.... it is impossible to oppose everything, as even the best Fi that opposes every bad feeling will get overloaded... and so what happens to what they don't oppose? >> that just happens! it does not get stopped by their feelings. So these certain things (on which they don't focus) just happen. They absolutely do not know, because they honestly do not have that intent, to make these things happen. Because at the mean time, they were focusing on their feelings blocking some other bad things. But that thing that they let happen, it just slips through / passes through, it happens by mistake/coincidence. This is the shadow working here! So while they were focusing on the enemy authority that should be opposed, they were actually helping the other side, which is another authority (the enemy of your enemy, is your friend). What actually happens was not the inside intent of the Fi folks themselves, but to the outside observer, and to actual effects in real life.

    So lets say we are Fi here (or playing/imagining Fi, like in my case): the idea is that you are opposing something that feels bad, you are thinking about the thing that feels bad and must be stopped. BUT by doing that you are doing the job of somebody else, or helping somebody else, somebody you did not notice and/or had not the specific intent to for helping. But you still did, by coincidence! (And then it was my next conclusion that this "somebody which you helped" will be a collective or a person which is indirectly controlling you in this case, but never an impersonal piece of moral code).

    Conclusion, as to why I included Fi in authoritarian, not just Te, is because Fi leaves trails of Te (their shadow). Although I know Fi-s really did not intent for that to happen, it still does, in real life.


    P.S. All functions have the shadow working against them, not just Fi. This was just an Fi example, since you guys probably think Fi is anti-authoritarian and I needed to clear that one up.
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