[MBTI General] Reconciling the four temperaments with MBTI

[Studmuffin23]

The first personality-theory that I became acquainted with before MBTI was the "four temperament" theory. As most of you know, it consists of four personalities: one extremely laid-back (phlegmatic), one extremely take-charge (choleric), one extremely perfectionist (melancholy), and one extremely playful (sanguine). Since becoming acquainted with MBTI, I've found a surprisingly strong parallel for these four temperaments, not in David Keirsey's SJ/SP/NT/NF system, but in peoples' preferences for extroversion/introversion and judging/perceiving.

ExxJs (Cholerics)

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

ExxPs (Sanguines)

IxxJs (Melancholies)


To tell the truth, I spotted this correlation shortly after learning about the 16 types. All this time I've kept it under my hat, but it's just so obvious to me now that I can hardly ignore it. Has anyone else noticed this parallel?

 

[Ene]

O

The first personality-theory that I became acquainted with before MBTI was the "four temperament" theory. As most of you know, it consists of four personalities: one extremely laid-back (phlegmatic), one extremely take-charge (choleric), one extremely perfectionist (melancholy), and one extremely playful (sanguine). Since becoming acquainted with MBTI, I've found a surprisingly strong parallel for these four temperaments, not in David Keirsey's SJ/SP/NT/NF system, but in peoples' preferences for extroversion/introversion and judging/perceiving. Here's what I've observed about each combination:

ExxJs (Cholerics)

-Work-oriented
-Assertive
-Purposeful
-Decisive
-Confrontational
-Outspoken

(while many will see these traits as incompatible with ExFJs, I must point out that, for all their ability to cultivate good feelings among people, they are just as confrontational/outspoken as their ExTJ cousins when trouble starts)

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

-Contemplative
-Tolerant
-Good-natured
-Laid-back
-Curious
-Principled

ExxPs (Sanguines)

-Friendly
-Creative
-Spontaneous
-Enthusiastic
-Outgoing
-Playful

IxxJs (Melancholies)

-Perfectionist
-Disciplined
-Analytical
-Reserved
-Strong-willed
-Scheduled

To tell the truth, I spotted this correlation shortly after learning about the 16 types. All this time I've kept it under my hat, but it's just so obvious to me now that I can hardly ignore it. Has anyone else noticed this parallel?

For the most part, I agree with you. I encountered temperaments first as well and my conclusions were very similar to yours. I find it interesting that there are 16 temperament blends.

Oh, btw, my temperament blend goes well with my MBTI. I am a Mel/Phleg.

 

[Cygnus]

I do EF - ET - IF - IT and SP - SJ - NP - NJ for Sanguine, Choleric, Phlegmatic, and Melancholic respectively. I especially think Ne fits in with Phlegmatic-like nervousness and Ni matches with Melancholic nihilism and a "wraith-like" demeanor.

 

[Pionart]

I thought choleric clearly fit EJ and sanguine EP, but for the other 2 I wasn't so sure. I took a test for it and got phlegmatic even though I'm IJ.

 

[reckful]

I think that Keirsey was wrong to treat SJ/SP/NF/NT as a fundamental foursome in the way he did, and that his match-ups with the historical "temperaments" were often strained. And if you're interested, you can read more about that in this post.

But... meh. I think your temperament match-ups are at least as artificial/strained as Keirsey's.

Here are my quick takes on the qualities you've assigned to your "temperaments":

ExxJs (Cholerics)

-Work-oriented
I think E, T and J can all contribute, and J's probably the biggest factor. I'd say ISTJs are at least as "work-oriented" as ENFJs, as one example.
-Assertive
-Purposeful
J yes, but E not so much. I don't think ISTJs are less "purposeful" than ENFJs.
-Decisive
Again, mainly J.
-Confrontational
ETJ, baby. You said EFJs are "just as confrontational ... as their ExTJ cousins when trouble starts," but that's not really true. It's true that an EFJ on a rampage is not a pretty sight, but as between an EFJ and an ETJ, the EFJ is significantly more likely to be diplomatic. And an ITJ on a rampage isn't a pretty sight, either.
-Outspoken

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

-Contemplative
IN. I'd say an INFJ is likely to be more "contemplative" than an ISTP.
-Tolerant
-Good-natured
-Laid-back
-Curious
IN again. INJs don't take a back seat to ISPs in the curiosity department.
-Principled
It depends what you mean, but I'd point to F and J as the biggest contributors. I think TPs are the most temperamentally amoral types.

ExxPs (Sanguines)

-Friendly
-Creative
There's quite a lot of data suggesting that N's the biggest "creativity" contributor, with P maybe in second place. The quintessential artist type is probably the INFP, and that's certainly a more creative type than ESTP. (More on that here.)
-Spontaneous
-Enthusiastic
-Outgoing
ESF. ESFJs are more outgoing (by most definitions) than ENTPs.
-Playful

IxxJs (Melancholies)

-Perfectionist
Although that makes a kind of sense to me, just FYI, personalitypage.com singles out both INFJs and INFPs as perfectionists, Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk) say INFPs are the perfectionists, Hirsch & Kummerow also say INFPs are the perfectionists, and the official MBTI Manual says I_FPs are perfectionists.
-Disciplined
Basically just J.
-Analytical
More IN than IJ. I'd say INPs are more analytical than ISJs.
-Reserved
Mostly just I.
-Strong-willed
Mostly just J, and also T depending on what you mean. EJs aren't less strong-willed than IJs.
-Scheduled
Basically just J. I wouldn't say EJs are notably less scheduled than IJs.

 

[iHeartCats]

This seems to correspond

 

[Studmuffin23]

I think that Keirsey was wrong to treat SJ/SP/NF/NT as a fundamental foursome in the way he did, and that his match-ups with the historical "temperaments" were often strained. And if you're interested, you can read more about that in this post.

But... meh. I think your temperament match-ups are at least as artificial/strained as Keirsey's.

Here are my quick takes on the qualities you've assigned to your "temperaments":

ExxJs (Cholerics)

-Work-oriented
I think E, T and J can all contribute, and J's probably the biggest factor. I'd say ISTJs are at least as "work-oriented" as ENFJs, as one example.
-Assertive
-Purposeful
J yes, but E not so much. I don't think ISTJs are less "purposeful" than ENFJs.
-Decisive
Again, mainly J.
-Confrontational
ETJ, baby. You said EFJs are "just as confrontational ... as their ExTJ cousins when trouble starts," but that's not really true. It's true that an EFJ on a rampage is not a pretty sight, but as between an EFJ and an ETJ, the EFJ is significantly more likely to be diplomatic. And an ITJ on a rampage isn't a pretty sight, either.
-Outspoken

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

-Contemplative
IN. I'd say an INFJ is likely to be more "contemplative" than an ISTP.
-Tolerant
-Good-natured
-Laid-back
-Curious
IN again. INJs don't take a back seat to ISPs in the curiosity department.
-Principled
It depends what you mean, but I'd point to F and J as the biggest contributors. I think TPs are the most temperamentally amoral types.

ExxPs (Sanguines)

-Friendly
-Creative
There's quite a lot of data suggesting that N's the biggest "creativity" contributor, with P maybe in second place. The quintessential artist type is probably the INFP, and that's certainly a more creative type than ESTP. (More on that here.)
-Spontaneous
-Enthusiastic
-Outgoing
ESF. ESFJs are more outgoing (by most definitions) than ENTPs.
-Playful

IxxJs (Melancholies)

-Perfectionist
Although that makes a kind of sense to me, just FYI, personalitypage.com singles out both INFJs and INFPs as perfectionists, Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk) say INFPs are the perfectionists, Hirsch & Kummerow also say INFPs are the perfectionists, and the official MBTI Manual says I_FPs are perfectionists.
-Disciplined
Basically just J.
-Analytical
More IN than IJ. I'd say INPs are more analytical than ISJs.
-Reserved
Mostly just I.
-Strong-willed
Mostly just J, and also T depending on what you mean. EJs aren't less strong-willed than IJs.
-Scheduled
Basically just J. I wouldn't say EJs are notably less scheduled than IJs.

I thank you for your contribution, but that's really not how I meant these terms to be applied; I probably should have just left them to the imagination.

By "perfectionist", just for one example, I am referring to the IxxJs' puritanical committal to thoroughness in everyday tasks: college papers, house cleaning, etc. In this, they differ from their extroverted counterparts in that ExxJs are more concerned with getting as much work done as possible, with less regard for the quality of the job. As for INFPs, their perfectionism is more idealistic in nature.

You make a great point overall in that I should have left my own observations off here. The terms are just too ambiguous.

 

[Cygnus]

I think that Keirsey was wrong to treat SJ/SP/NF/NT as a fundamental foursome in the way he did, and that his match-ups with the historical "temperaments" were often strained. And if you're interested, you can read more about that in this post.

But... meh. I think your temperament match-ups are at least as artificial/strained as Keirsey's.

Here are my quick takes on the qualities you've assigned to your "temperaments":

ExxJs (Cholerics)

-Work-oriented
I think E, T and J can all contribute, and J's probably the biggest factor. I'd say ISTJs are at least as "work-oriented" as ENFJs, as one example.
-Assertive
-Purposeful
J yes, but E not so much. I don't think ISTJs are less "purposeful" than ENFJs.
-Decisive
Again, mainly J.
-Confrontational
ETJ, baby. You said EFJs are "just as confrontational ... as their ExTJ cousins when trouble starts," but that's not really true. It's true that an EFJ on a rampage is not a pretty sight, but as between an EFJ and an ETJ, the EFJ is significantly more likely to be diplomatic. And an ITJ on a rampage isn't a pretty sight, either.
-Outspoken

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

-Contemplative
IN. I'd say an INFJ is likely to be more "contemplative" than an ISTP.
-Tolerant
-Good-natured
-Laid-back
-Curious
IN again. INJs don't take a back seat to ISPs in the curiosity department.
-Principled
It depends what you mean, but I'd point to F and J as the biggest contributors. I think TPs are the most temperamentally amoral types.

ExxPs (Sanguines)

-Friendly
-Creative
There's quite a lot of data suggesting that N's the biggest "creativity" contributor, with P maybe in second place. The quintessential artist type is probably the INFP, and that's certainly a more creative type than ESTP. (More on that here.)
-Spontaneous
-Enthusiastic
-Outgoing
ESF. ESFJs are more outgoing (by most definitions) than ENTPs.
-Playful

IxxJs (Melancholies)

-Perfectionist
Although that makes a kind of sense to me, just FYI, personalitypage.com singles out both INFJs and INFPs as perfectionists, Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk) say INFPs are the perfectionists, Hirsch & Kummerow also say INFPs are the perfectionists, and the official MBTI Manual says I_FPs are perfectionists.
-Disciplined
Basically just J.
-Analytical
More IN than IJ. I'd say INPs are more analytical than ISJs.
-Reserved
Mostly just I.
-Strong-willed
Mostly just J, and also T depending on what you mean. EJs aren't less strong-willed than IJs.
-Scheduled
Basically just J. I wouldn't say EJs are notably less scheduled than IJs.

I'd agree with the first part of this quote. I don't think it was logical to split Sensors between SP and SJ while Intuitives were NF and NT. It all smells of Gerrymandering. SF - ST is at least analog to NF - NT.

 

[Mal12345]

The first personality-theory that I became acquainted with before MBTI was the "four temperament" theory. As most of you know, it consists of four personalities: one extremely laid-back (phlegmatic), one extremely take-charge (choleric), one extremely perfectionist (melancholy), and one extremely playful (sanguine). Since becoming acquainted with MBTI, I've found a surprisingly strong parallel for these four temperaments, not in David Keirsey's SJ/SP/NT/NF system, but in peoples' preferences for extroversion/introversion and judging/perceiving.

ExxJs (Cholerics)

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

ExxPs (Sanguines)

IxxJs (Melancholies)


To tell the truth, I spotted this correlation shortly after learning about the 16 types. All this time I've kept it under my hat, but it's just so obvious to me now that I can hardly ignore it. Has anyone else noticed this parallel?

Lately psychology has added a fifth temperament called the Supine.
Supine - The Five Basic Temperaments

So if you're interested perhaps we should include the new one.

 

[Myshkin14]

The first personality-theory that I became acquainted with before MBTI was the "four temperament" theory. As most of you know, it consists of four personalities: one extremely laid-back (phlegmatic), one extremely take-charge (choleric), one extremely perfectionist (melancholy), and one extremely playful (sanguine). Since becoming acquainted with MBTI, I've found a surprisingly strong parallel for these four temperaments, not in David Keirsey's SJ/SP/NT/NF system, but in peoples' preferences for extroversion/introversion and judging/perceiving.

ExxJs (Cholerics)

IxxPs (Phlegmatics)

ExxPs (Sanguines)

IxxJs (Melancholies)


To tell the truth, I spotted this correlation shortly after learning about the 16 types. All this time I've kept it under my hat, but it's just so obvious to me now that I can hardly ignore it. Has anyone else noticed this parallel?

I agree.

I think people want to take the word "temperament" and start defining it in ways that fit their newer theories. We all easily slip into combining it with trait theory too.

When you subtract the contents of classical temperament theory, but keep the general outline of what a temperament is in conceptual terms, it seems clear to me that E/I (energy) and J/P (orientation) are essentially saying the same thing.

 

[Evee]

According to that I would be more IP than IJ.

 

[Galena]

Melancholy resolves just fine for me. I am easily a Melancholy/Supine.

 

[Mal12345]

According to that I would be more IP than IJ.

It's just reconciling one system with another. And the ancient Greek method fails because it originated from typing male personalities only.

 

[Studmuffin23]

It's just reconciling one system with another. And the ancient Greek method fails because it originated from typing male personalities only.

It's actually very good that you mentioned that, because I must make something clear.

The four temperaments that I am speaking of do not strictly follow the ancient Greek model, which David Keirsey used. I am mainly referring to the 20th century self-help conferences which reduced the four temperament theory to a simple, pragmatic system of archetypes such as laid-back, take-charge, playful, and perfectionist (it's probable that this concept was born in the medieval period, though I'm not certain).

Once again, when I compare what I know of MBTI preferences with the four temperaments, it just seems obvious. Everything you read about melancholies and cholerics simply screams J. Everything you read about sanguines and phlegmatics simply screams P. Combine this with the well-known I/E preference of the four, and voila: MBTI and the temperaments correspond beautifully.

On a side note, I've always thought this would go a long way toward clearing up the IxxP vs. IxxJ type confusion. In real-life, they're not that similar.

 

[Studmuffin23]

Lately psychology has added a fifth temperament called the Supine.
Supine - The Five Basic Temperaments

So if you're interested perhaps we should include the new one.

I'm glad that you brought this up.

If you look into this subject further, you'll see a surprising parallel between supines and IxFJs. It's really just another word for altruistic-melancholy.

The "discovery" of the supine temperament came from peoples' realizing that personality is far more complex than mere temperament, with traits such as thinking/feeling needing to be taken into account as well. MBTI is the answer to that dilemma.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm glad that you brought this up.

If you look into this subject further, you'll see a surprising parallel between supines and IxFJs. It's really just another word for altruistic-melancholy.

The "discovery" of the supine temperament came from peoples' realizing that personality is far more complex than mere temperament, with traits such as thinking/feeling needing to be taken into account as well. MBTI is the answer to that dilemma.

This forum has been around for a while, you know?

I think there is a difference between the LaHaye's interpretations of they humors and the original meanings, but I'm not certain.

If you go with something like the LaHaye's system, I'd say the correlations are something like:
EXXP=Sanguine
EXXJ=Choleric
IXXP=Phlegmatic
IXXJ=Melancholic

Edit: For a secondary pref, there's a correlation between T and Choleric and F and Sanguine. I don't think you can go much further than that.

 

[Such Irony]

I'm about a 50/50 split between phlegmatic and melancholy.

 

[Hitoshi-San]

I'm an ESTP and when I test with the 4 Temperaments on system of points, I get the most points in Choleric and then Sanguine, then Phlegmatic then Melancholic. So I guess I'm Choleric/Sanguine.

I might be wrong, but:

ISTJ: Melancholic
ISFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
INFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic
INTJ: Melancholic/Choleric
ISTP: Melancholic/Sanguine
ISFP: Phlegmatic/Sanguine
INFP: Phlegmatic
INTP: Phlegmatic/Choleric
ESTP: Choleric/Sanguine
ESFP: Sanguine
ENFP: Sanguine/Phlegmatic
ENTP: Sanguine/choleric
ESTJ: Choleric/melancholic
ESFJ: Sanguine/melancholic
ENFJ: Choleric/phlegmatic
ENTJ: choleric

Obviously, if you're an ISTJ, ESFP, INFP, or ENTJ, you could have a "secondary" temperament (like Sanguine/Melancholic instead of plain sanguine for ESFP).

Actually, I think I pulled this idea off another thread like this that I read once....

 

[Eric B]

There are basically two levels of temperament in type. It basically fits both Keirsey's groups, AND the Interaction Styles. The Interaction Styles are actually the more familiar (social) version of the temperaments, using I/E, and people/task (which is called "informing/directing", and connects with both T/F and J/P).
The Keirsey temperaments are an altogether different level, called "conative", meaning dealing with "action" rather than social skills. Instead of I/E, they use cooperative/pragmatic (which if you think about it, is another kind of "passive/assertive" like classic I/E), and people/task is motive/structure.
So what you end up with is SP: Sanguine, SJ: Melancholic, but Keirsey mixed up the other two. NT is Choleric (pragmatic, structure), and NF is Phlegmatic (cooperative, motive). He didn't think NF would be the "calm" Phlegmatic, but in the conative area, it's not about calm or emotive (which is more Interaction Style anyway).

ISTJ: Melancholic
ISFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
INFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic
INTJ: Melancholic/Choleric
ISTP: Melancholic/Sanguine
ISFP: Phlegmatic/Sanguine
INFP: Phlegmatic
INTP: Phlegmatic/Choleric
ESTP: Choleric/Sanguine
ESFP: Sanguine
ENFP: Sanguine/Phlegmatic
ENTP: Sanguine/choleric
ESTJ: Choleric/melancholic
ESFJ: Sanguine/melancholic
ENFJ: Choleric/phlegmatic
ENTJ: choleric

Mostly correct, except for reversing these two:

INFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
ISFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic

Phlegmatic in either area can also be substituted with that fifth temperament, Supine, which is also passive and people-focused (in actuality, Phlegmatic is moderate in both dimensions, but fit passive/people when the fifth temperament was unknown).

 

[Ene]

There are basically two levels of temperament in type. It basically fits both Keirsey's groups, AND the Interaction Styles. The Interaction Styles are actually the more familiar (social) version of the temperaments, using I/E, and people/task (which is called "informing/directing", and connects with both T/F and J/P).
The Keirsey temperaments are an altogether different level, called "conative", meaning dealing with "action" rather than social skills. Instead of I/E, they use cooperative/pragmatic (which if you think about it, is another kind of "passive/assertive" like classic I/E), and people/task is motive/structure.
So what you end up with is SP: Sanguine, SJ: Melancholic, but Keirsey mixed up the other two. NT is Choleric (pragmatic, structure), and NF is Phlegmatic (cooperative, motive). He didn't think NF would be the "calm" Phlegmatic, but in the conative area, it's not about calm or emotive (which is more Interaction Style anyway).



Mostly correct, except for reversing these two:

INFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
ISFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic

Phlegmatic in either area can also be substituted with that fifth temperament, Supine, which is also passive and people-focused (in actuality, Phlegmatic is moderate in both dimensions, but fit passive/people when the fifth temperament was unknown).

Great post. I agree whole-heartedly with the switch.