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  1. #11
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    According to that I would be more IP than IJ.

  2. #12
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Melancholy resolves just fine for me. I am easily a Melancholy/Supine.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evee View Post
    According to that I would be more IP than IJ.
    It's just reconciling one system with another. And the ancient Greek method fails because it originated from typing male personalities only.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    It's just reconciling one system with another. And the ancient Greek method fails because it originated from typing male personalities only.
    It's actually very good that you mentioned that, because I must make something clear.

    The four temperaments that I am speaking of do not strictly follow the ancient Greek model, which David Keirsey used. I am mainly referring to the 20th century self-help conferences which reduced the four temperament theory to a simple, pragmatic system of archetypes such as laid-back, take-charge, playful, and perfectionist (it's probable that this concept was born in the medieval period, though I'm not certain).

    Once again, when I compare what I know of MBTI preferences with the four temperaments, it just seems obvious. Everything you read about melancholies and cholerics simply screams J. Everything you read about sanguines and phlegmatics simply screams P. Combine this with the well-known I/E preference of the four, and voila: MBTI and the temperaments correspond beautifully.

    On a side note, I've always thought this would go a long way toward clearing up the IxxP vs. IxxJ type confusion. In real-life, they're not that similar.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Studmuffin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Lately psychology has added a fifth temperament called the Supine.
    Supine - The Five Basic Temperaments

    So if you're interested perhaps we should include the new one.
    I'm glad that you brought this up.

    If you look into this subject further, you'll see a surprising parallel between supines and IxFJs. It's really just another word for altruistic-melancholy.

    The "discovery" of the supine temperament came from peoples' realizing that personality is far more complex than mere temperament, with traits such as thinking/feeling needing to be taken into account as well. MBTI is the answer to that dilemma.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Studmuffin23 View Post
    I'm glad that you brought this up.

    If you look into this subject further, you'll see a surprising parallel between supines and IxFJs. It's really just another word for altruistic-melancholy.

    The "discovery" of the supine temperament came from peoples' realizing that personality is far more complex than mere temperament, with traits such as thinking/feeling needing to be taken into account as well. MBTI is the answer to that dilemma.
    This forum has been around for a while, you know?
    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think there is a difference between the LaHaye's interpretations of they humors and the original meanings, but I'm not certain.

    If you go with something like the LaHaye's system, I'd say the correlations are something like:
    EXXP=Sanguine
    EXXJ=Choleric
    IXXP=Phlegmatic
    IXXJ=Melancholic

    Edit: For a secondary pref, there's a correlation between T and Choleric and F and Sanguine. I don't think you can go much further than that.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I'm about a 50/50 split between phlegmatic and melancholy.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Hitoshi-San's Avatar
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    I'm an ESTP and when I test with the 4 Temperaments on system of points, I get the most points in Choleric and then Sanguine, then Phlegmatic then Melancholic. So I guess I'm Choleric/Sanguine.

    I might be wrong, but:

    ISTJ: Melancholic
    ISFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
    INFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic
    INTJ: Melancholic/Choleric
    ISTP: Melancholic/Sanguine
    ISFP: Phlegmatic/Sanguine
    INFP: Phlegmatic
    INTP: Phlegmatic/Choleric
    ESTP: Choleric/Sanguine
    ESFP: Sanguine
    ENFP: Sanguine/Phlegmatic
    ENTP: Sanguine/choleric
    ESTJ: Choleric/melancholic
    ESFJ: Sanguine/melancholic
    ENFJ: Choleric/phlegmatic
    ENTJ: choleric

    Obviously, if you're an ISTJ, ESFP, INFP, or ENTJ, you could have a "secondary" temperament (like Sanguine/Melancholic instead of plain sanguine for ESFP).

    Actually, I think I pulled this idea off another thread like this that I read once....

  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    There are basically two levels of temperament in type. It basically fits both Keirsey's groups, AND the Interaction Styles. The Interaction Styles are actually the more familiar (social) version of the temperaments, using I/E, and people/task (which is called "informing/directing", and connects with both T/F and J/P).
    The Keirsey temperaments are an altogether different level, called "conative", meaning dealing with "action" rather than social skills. Instead of I/E, they use cooperative/pragmatic (which if you think about it, is another kind of "passive/assertive" like classic I/E), and people/task is motive/structure.
    So what you end up with is SP: Sanguine, SJ: Melancholic, but Keirsey mixed up the other two. NT is Choleric (pragmatic, structure), and NF is Phlegmatic (cooperative, motive). He didn't think NF would be the "calm" Phlegmatic, but in the conative area, it's not about calm or emotive (which is more Interaction Style anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_Red View Post
    ISTJ: Melancholic
    ISFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
    INFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic
    INTJ: Melancholic/Choleric
    ISTP: Melancholic/Sanguine
    ISFP: Phlegmatic/Sanguine
    INFP: Phlegmatic
    INTP: Phlegmatic/Choleric
    ESTP: Choleric/Sanguine
    ESFP: Sanguine
    ENFP: Sanguine/Phlegmatic
    ENTP: Sanguine/choleric
    ESTJ: Choleric/melancholic
    ESFJ: Sanguine/melancholic
    ENFJ: Choleric/phlegmatic
    ENTJ: choleric
    Mostly correct, except for reversing these two:

    INFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
    ISFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic

    Phlegmatic in either area can also be substituted with that fifth temperament, Supine, which is also passive and people-focused (in actuality, Phlegmatic is moderate in both dimensions, but fit passive/people when the fifth temperament was unknown).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    There are basically two levels of temperament in type. It basically fits both Keirsey's groups, AND the Interaction Styles. The Interaction Styles are actually the more familiar (social) version of the temperaments, using I/E, and people/task (which is called "informing/directing", and connects with both T/F and J/P).
    The Keirsey temperaments are an altogether different level, called "conative", meaning dealing with "action" rather than social skills. Instead of I/E, they use cooperative/pragmatic (which if you think about it, is another kind of "passive/assertive" like classic I/E), and people/task is motive/structure.
    So what you end up with is SP: Sanguine, SJ: Melancholic, but Keirsey mixed up the other two. NT is Choleric (pragmatic, structure), and NF is Phlegmatic (cooperative, motive). He didn't think NF would be the "calm" Phlegmatic, but in the conative area, it's not about calm or emotive (which is more Interaction Style anyway).



    Mostly correct, except for reversing these two:

    INFJ: Melancholic/Phlegmatic
    ISFJ: Phlegmatic/Melancholic

    Phlegmatic in either area can also be substituted with that fifth temperament, Supine, which is also passive and people-focused (in actuality, Phlegmatic is moderate in both dimensions, but fit passive/people when the fifth temperament was unknown).
    Great post. I agree whole-heartedly with the switch.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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