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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahbob View Post
    I don't know, I grew up homeschooled so I never really got a chance to understand how I am.

    I'm majorly fucked up so I'm probably not a good example of an INFP. But I guess I probably always have fallen on the introvert side. I don't really know - I was like a happy kid then I found out that what the youth pastor had taught me to do with him was going to "send me to hell" and - bam - never been happy since and always been terrified of putting myself out there.
    But it's not your fault. You were the victim. You were abused. You didn't do anything wrong

    Besides hell is nothing more than separation from God and the truth is that it's not at all Biblical to tell people they are going to hell for any one vice or sin, because all fall short of the glory of God (yes the greedy, the gluttonous, the self righteous. ...there are many sins that in no way involve sex, pride - saying one is above or has no need for God - the blackest sin, murder and torture likely being next, and unrepentant hate.)

    It is nothing more than cultural misogyny that would even say such things to you, it has nothing to do with God. The Bible is the Living Word because it's historic and yet constantly can be applied to now, especially if read in the attitude of acceptance of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not stuck on something that happened when you were twelve.

    It's actually blasphemous to say that there are unforgivable sins, as long as the sinner has a sincerely repententent heart.

    And again, you didn't sin, your youth pastor did. Jesus promised you life more fully, not death or being trapped in the past. Fear is the opposite of faith.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member blahblahbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    But it's not your fault. You were the victim. You were abused. You didn't do anything wrong

    Besides hell is nothing more than separation from God and the truth is that it's not at all Biblical to tell people they are going to hell for any one vice or sin, because all fall short of the glory of God (yes the greedy, the gluttonous, the self righteous. ...there are many sins that in no way involve sex, pride - saying one is above or has no need for God - the blackest sin, murder and torture likely being next, and unrepentant hate.)

    It is nothing more than cultural misogyny that would even say such things to you, it has nothing to do with God. The Bible is the Living Word because it's historic and yet constantly can be applied to now, especially if read in the attitude of acceptance of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not stuck on something that happened when you were twelve.

    It's actually blasphemous to say that there are unforgivable sins, as long as the sinner has a sincerely repententent heart.

    And again, you didn't sin, your youth pastor did. Jesus promised you life more fully, not death or being trapped in the past. Fear is the opposite of faith.
    Oh dear, I'm very atheist, and not because of the abuse - by intellectual choice. Also, I'm male, so misogyny had nothing to do with it.

    I respect your beliefs regardless though.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahbob View Post
    Oh dear, I'm very atheist, and not because of the abuse - by intellectual choice. Also, I'm male, so misogyny had nothing to do with it.

    I respect your beliefs regardless though.
    Ok well then cultural homophobia. However, you said you have never been happy since some people told you that you were going to hell, that's a really long time to limit yourself over something you claim you don't believe in, so I naturally assumed you wrestled with some unfounded guilt or fear of hell.

    I don't understand then why you are letting something you don't believe in define you, that doesn't make sense to me at all, why not just think, those assholes were wrong, I'll be ok?

    At any rate, what those people said to you wasn't Biblical. Hell fire preachers are like the jihad of small town churches. Christian love: you're doing it wrong (like Islam being about peace and jihad being constantly preoccupied with terrorism).
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Ok well then cultural homophobia. However, you said you have never been happy since some people told you that you were going to hell, that's a really long time to limit yourself over something you claim you don't believe in, so I naturally assumed you wrestled with some unfounded guilt or fear of hell.

    I don't understand then why you are letting something you don't believe in define you, that doesn't make sense to me at all, why not just think, those assholes were wrong, I'll be ok?

    At any rate, what those people said to you wasn't Biblical. Hell fire preachers are like the jihad of small town churches. Christian love: you're doing it wrong (like Islam being about peace and jihad being constantly preoccupied with terrorism).
    Yes, I was not atheist at the time. I regard four years of psychologically tormenting oneself for actions that were out of my control to be pretty psychologically damaging. It's a lot of self-loathing conditioning.

    Quite simply, I don't think "I'll be ok" because I'm not going to be ok. Additionally, I eventually pushed the memories out of my conscious mind by not even thinking back at all for a long time. I didn't even remember my childhood at all until I was about 25, then it all rushed back to me like being hit by a freight train making everything that came thereafter - the years of crying and depression - make a great deal more sense. When I tried to go to authorities about it, I was immediately ganged up on by the church and threatened with death and a whole bunch of other really horrible stuff happened so things just got more compoundedly bad.

    They weren't really hellfire preachers - they just wanted to make sure they could keep making money off their pedophile ring on the side. All told, from the other victims, about 24 boys were raped and molested over the period of a decade. Having been homeschooled, I never really had a conception of how illegal any of it was - I only envisioned it as sinful.

    You're right they're jihadists though - they believe in "spiritual warfare" and driving and terrorizing "demon possessed" people out of the town and harassing them perpetually. It was an Assemblies of God church so they believe in all the "Thomas Muthee Witchhunting" dogma... Sad how evil people can become to others just by assimilating an ideology.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahbob View Post
    Yes, I was not atheist at the time. I regard four years of psychologically tormenting oneself for actions that were out of my control to be pretty psychologically damaging. It's a lot of self-loathing conditioning.

    Quite simply, I don't think "I'll be ok" because I'm not going to be ok. Additionally, I eventually pushed the memories out of my conscious mind by not even thinking back at all for a long time. I didn't even remember my childhood at all until I was about 25, then it all rushed back to me like being hit by a freight train making everything that came thereafter - the years of crying and depression - make a great deal more sense. When I tried to go to authorities about it, I was immediately ganged up on by the church and threatened with death and a whole bunch of other really horrible stuff happened so things just got more compoundedly bad.

    They weren't really hellfire preachers - they just wanted to make sure they could keep making money off their pedophile ring on the side. All told, from the other victims, about 24 boys were raped and molested over the period of a decade. Having been homeschooled, I never really had a conception of how illegal any of it was - I only envisioned it as sinful.

    You're right they're jihadists though - they believe in "spiritual warfare" and driving and terrorizing "demon possessed" people out of the town and harassing them perpetually. It was an Assemblies of God church so they believe in all the "Thomas Muthee Witchhunting" dogma... Sad how evil people can become to others just by assimilating an ideology.
    I'm sorry to hear that, but I recommend therapy, saying you won't be ok is giving them power they don't deserve. And people who hate under a dogma would have equally hated under another, whether it was Assembly of God, their wealthy social circle, or PETA. I learned a long time ago that people are people and dogma is dogma, and to blame religion or government, per se, for other people's choices is crap. Those people would have found a way to other or torture people somehow, make no mistake, my friend.

  6. #36
    Senior Member blahblahbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that, but I recommend therapy, saying you won't be ok is giving them power they don't deserve. And people who hate under a dogma would have equally hated under another, whether it was Assembly of God, their wealthy social circle, or PETA. I learned a long time ago that people are people and dogma is dogma, and to blame religion or government, per se, for other people's choices is crap. Those people would have found a way to other or torture people somehow, make no mistake, my friend.
    I don't blame religion for anything other than making people willing to side with a pastor who rapes 25 kids over the period of a decade over the kids he raped. I have no idea how idiotic people have to be to behave that way, but only religion can make them that way. Anyway, I only blame them for the lack of responsibility they take for their behavior as an institution and the actions they take to avoid negative publicity as an institution.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahbob View Post
    I don't blame religion for anything other than making people willing to side with a pastor who rapes 25 kids over the period of a decade over the kids he raped. I have no idea how idiotic people have to be to behave that way, but only religion can make them that way. Anyway, I only blame them for the lack of responsibility they take for their behavior as an institution and the actions they take to avoid negative publicity as an institution.
    No things other than religion can make people think that way. Nazi Germany, Southern slavery, child labor in the late 19th century, the current American attitude towards the homeless and mentally ill, nah its not about religion. Some of the kindest people in the world are religious, some of the worst are as well. People are stupid, when they're ignorant and afraid. We even have atheist men's rights activists who want to say that women who are rape victims are over reporting rape, some to the extent of it being just cruel victim blaming, not unlike your church members.

    Oprah Winfrey was also molested and she's now one of the richest women in the world. I'm not saying we all should be rich or famous, but really you seem to be forming your adult identity around a childhood trauma and some people you can't stand who don't believe the same thing you do.

    You can live in a world where some people are awful. You have to choose to reclaim your power. I'm not telling you to just get over it, that's not right, but you do have free will to stop defining yourself and your happiness by it at any moment.

  8. #38
    Senior Member blahblahbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    No things other than religion can make people think that way. Nazi Germany, Southern slavery, child labor in the late 19th century, the current American attitude towards the homeless and mentally ill, nah its not about religion. Some of the kindest people in the world are religious, some of the worst are as well. People are stupid, when they're ignorant and afraid. We even have atheist men's rights activists who want to say that women who are rape victims are over reporting rape, some to the extent of it being just cruel victim blaming, not unlike your church members.

    Oprah Winfrey was also molested and she's now one of the richest women in the world. I'm not saying we all should be rich or famous, but really you seem to be forming your adult identity around a childhood trauma and some people you can't stand who don't believe the same thing you do.

    You can live in a world where some people are awful. You have to choose to reclaim your power. I'm not telling you to just get over it, that's not right, but you do have free will to stop defining yourself and your happiness by it at any moment.
    It's more complex than you understand. I never sat out to "define my identity" by it - but then the church implemented what I can only call "zersetzung" on me and that was 100 times more traumatic than the rape. Oprah knows nothing about sexual abuse for the following reason:

    Dawkins posits that the concept of hell in a child is worse than being raped and molested as a child. Because I was molested by a religious authority on the basis of his religious authority and subsequently regarded as evil for it when I thought I was pleasing God by obeying my religious authorities, I completely agree with Dawkins. You can't simply undo the damage of 15 years of major depression caused by religion.

    And, no, I can't reclaim any power because I don't have any power and never have had any.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahbob View Post
    It's more complex than you understand. I never sat out to "define my identity" by it - but then the church implemented what I can only call "zersetzung" on me and that was 100 times more traumatic than the rape. Oprah knows nothing about sexual abuse for the following reason:

    Dawkins posits that the concept of hell in a child is worse than being raped and molested as a child. Because I was molested by a religious authority on the basis of his religious authority and subsequently regarded as evil for it when I thought I was pleasing God by obeying my religious authorities, I completely agree with Dawkins. You can't simply undo the damage of 15 years of major depression caused by religion.

    And, no, I can't reclaim any power because I don't have any power and never have had any.
    I'm so sorry you feel so convinced of your own powerlessness. Powerlessness is a lie, fed to the masses by corrupt leaders, but it's not your souls truth. If you were Christian, or even Taoist or Buddhist, I would appeal to the the meaning of your existence, by our truth as individual, the way you were created for love, how dare anyone keep you small. But since you are atheist, I will appeal to the simple now. The meaning of life is in the living, how much you could do with what limited resources you have been given emotionally, if not for others, for your self.

    I appeal to your inner ENFP to consider the possibilities, you can if you think you can. Don't let them win, how ugly for an Fi type to surrender themselves to a false god, to something they don't even believe. Yes, you can.

    I also appeal to your better nature in asking, really, is your sexual abuse so much worse than Oprah's, that you would seemingly lack compassion for her, despite her being molested by not church, but family. I appeal to your better nature, it's not only you.

    I like to read biographies. To me, proof of real life is the litmus test, that human potential, it is as limited as you believe it to be.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm so sorry you feel so convinced of your own powerlessness. Powerlessness is a lie, fed to the masses by corrupt leaders, but it's not your souls truth. If you were Christian, or even Taoist or Buddhist, I would appeal to the the meaning of your existence, by our truth as individual, the way you were created for love, how dare anyone keep you small. But since you are atheist, I will appeal to the simple now. The meaning of life is in the living, how much you could do with what limited resources you have been given emotionally, if not for others, for your self.

    I appeal to your inner ENFP to consider the possibilities, you can if you think you can. Don't let them win, how ugly for an Fi type to surrender themselves to a false god, to something they don't even believe. Yes, you can.

    I also appeal to your better nature in asking, really, is your sexual abuse so much worse than Oprah's, that you would seemingly lack compassion for her, despite her being molested by not church, but family. I appeal to your better nature, it's not only you.

    I like to read biographies. To me, proof of real life is the litmus test, that human potential, it is as limited as you believe it to be.
    This really isn't the forum to go into all my feelings on the matter and it's especially not the forum to complain about dirtbag propagandist predators like Oprah.

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