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  1. #11
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    I've been severely traumatized by illness and then tripped on LSD 47 times and spent most of the trips soul-searching in isolation. I got more in touch with some functions, but I'm still the same type. (I did not know MBTI/JCF/Enneagram back then, but I can tell I'm the same type based on diaries before and after.)
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  2. #12
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I posted two examples. If you don't think changes that drastic wouldn't result in a different MBTI then you really don't have an understanding of how something like a stroke can deeply change someones personality.
    You have provided two tabloid journalism examples which explain how a person has had changes to their personality as a result of brain damage from a stroke. There is nothing about MBTI. They don't even present credible references for what you are suggesting. I notice one of the adjacent articles:

    Was Kim Jong-Un gay orgy scene to blame for North Korea's fury? Leaked The Interview script reveals homoerotic scenes
    A leaked script from The Interview reveals a few scenes that Kim Jong-un and North Korea may have had problems with
    In one scene, Jong-un and Jame Franco's character are involved in an orgy together
    In another, Seth Rogen's character discusses how good Jong-un is at performing oral sex on men
    This as the federal government has stated that they believe North Korea is behind the Sony hacking scandal

    Read more: The Interview script leak reveals orgy scene with James Franco and Kim Jong-un as well as gay sex references to the North Korean leader that could have led to hack* | Daily Mail Online


    Real credible sources...

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  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Damn that Daily Mail.
    (...Damn it all to phrenology and back...)


    Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
    (Unless the world is ending or you're on Neptune.)
    ((Or you're comparing it to another clock on a spaceship traveling close to the speed of light.))
    (((Or someone has smashed the hands with a hammer so that they fell off.)))
    ((((or))))




    .... so are we trying to say then that MBTI has no rooting in biology?
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  4. #14
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You have provided two tabloid journalism examples which explain how a person has had changes to their personality as a result of brain damage from a stroke. There is nothing about MBTI. They don't even present credible references for what you are suggesting. I notice one of the adjacent articles:

    Was Kim Jong-Un gay orgy scene to blame for North Korea's fury? Leaked The Interview script reveals homoerotic scenes
    A leaked script from The Interview reveals a few scenes that Kim Jong-un and North Korea may have had problems with
    In one scene, Jong-un and Jame Franco's character are involved in an orgy together
    In another, Seth Rogen's character discusses how good Jong-un is at performing oral sex on men
    This as the federal government has stated that they believe North Korea is behind the Sony hacking scandal

    Read more: The Interview script leak reveals orgy scene with James Franco and Kim Jong-un as well as gay sex references to the North Korean leader that could have led to hack* | Daily Mail Online


    Real credible sources...
    If you don't think personality equates to MBTI, then I am done talking to you. To think those things are separate and exclusive is flagrantly asinine in my opinion.

    http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs...52.2012.722252

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  5. #15
    Member Aurora James's Avatar
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    It's possible, but unlikely. And even if it did happen, it would probably be a change like turning from an extravert to an introvert.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Yeah, tabloid skepticism aside, it seems improbable that personality type is so fundamentally immutable that no type of trauma can ever never ever change it.

  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    If you don't think personality equates to MBTI, then I am done talking to you. To think those things are separate and exclusive is flagrantly asinine in my opinion.

    An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

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    You can't read the whole studies you mention because they cost money. Here are a couple of interesting statements from the studies you just quoted.


    "Results: There were no group differences on demographic or TBI-related variables. Compared to the Blunt Group, the Blast Group had more psychopathy on the IM-P, with anger, frustration, toughness and boundary violations and tended to more neuroticism on the BFI. When pre-TBI and post-TBI assessments were compared on the IAS and FrSBe, only the patients with blast force mTBI had become more cold-hearted, aloof–introverted and apathetic."

    "The main findings were that participants reported significant changes in self-concept with current self being viewed negatively in comparison to pre-injury self. Perceived identity change was positively associated with depression and grief and negatively associated with self-esteem and awareness. Awareness was negatively associated with self-esteem and positively associated with depression. These findings were consistent with previous research, revealing changes in identity following TBI. Further research is needed to increase our understanding of the psychological factors involved in emotional adjustment after TBI and to inform brain injury rehabilitation interventions, including psychotherapy approaches."


    Ok that is better evidence I guess. One of the studies mentions that they looked at Big 5 (not MBTI) and specifically changes in the neuroticism variable. There was no mention of MBTI in either of them.

    You could argue about facets and the dumbing down of Jung's theory and MBTI as an instrument and but I believe fundamentally the MBTI type is an an ordering of cognitive functions that a person prefers as it relates to perceiving and judgment. The person't MBTI type is based on the ordering of those top two functions. Trait or behavior based interpretations of this tend to be unreliable.

    Therefore, the question appears to be whether or not the brain injury would lead to a reordering of those top two cognitive functions, which is a very deeply embedded way of cognition that a person has. It has nothing to do with how easily they are frustrated or angry or how tough or neurotic they are. So I still don't see any actual real evidence that MBTI type changes as a result of brain injury.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  8. #18
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    There is an inherent problem with this. May your personality change? Why certainly. But will people's perception of your personality change? When an ISFP wakes up extraverted, how do we know they aren't simply lying? As such, I'm going to pick that whenever I am confronted with such a thing, my first reaction will be probably not. But, as with everything, you can expect me to research it. A lot.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I've been severely traumatized by illness and then tripped on LSD 47 times and spent most of the trips soul-searching in isolation. I got more in touch with some functions, but I'm still the same type. (I did not know MBTI/JCF/Enneagram back then, but I can tell I'm the same type based on diaries before and after.)
    Also, lol. LSD doesn't change who you are. It simply distorts your senses, at least as far as I know. Now same can't be as certain with others. Like those horrible ADHD meds. Turning me into a robot. You cannot. Maybe with some people, but not I.

    Pretty much any memory forgetting thing will affect your personality, I think. Not sure, because if you are who you are, your lack of memory won't take that away.

  10. #20
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    If you don't think personality equates to MBTI, then I am done talking to you. To think those things are separate and exclusive is flagrantly asinine in my opinion.
    So you're saying that MBTI describes EVERYTHING there is to one's personality, there's nothing else?

    I thought the general view was that MBTI is a part of personality, but that there are many other aspects to personality.

    As a simple example, enneagram is personality, but enneagram is not MBTI. Therefore MBTI and personality do not equate.

    Note that I am not saying whether I think MBTI type can change. It seems unlikely, but the whole theory seems somewhat unlikely too. So, idk.

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