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Introversion versus Extroversion

Haphazard

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I like to spend quite a bit of time alone, but I never have the feeling that it's quite the same as when introverts do it. It doesn't usually (unless I'm specifically meditating or praying) have that 'calm, recharging' quality to it.

My 'time alone' never has a 'calm, recharging' quality to it. In fact, I'd say it's much more active, physically and mentally, than my time with other people. Other people cramp my thinking and existing space rather than be conductive to it (as opposed to extroverts).

The reason why ENPs will probably seem quite introverted is because though they need stimulation they have a habit of creating their own, rather than going out and looking for it.

And I guess it didn't make much sense to put something in a list that was really being measured on two axes. Here's an attempt at a graph:

axisextroversionoj2.png
 

SillySapienne

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Hmm, I bet the most intelligent introvert is smarter than the most intelligent extrovert, regarding abstractions, but, um, I dunno.

I am a "HSP", and I am extroverted, also, I know a lot of relatively "stupid" introverts.

I am super sensitive to stimuli, but I am also a stimulus whore, it makes no sense, I tell ya!!
 

Haphazard

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Hap, wtf?!?!?!

That graph is silly.

*shrug*

Really, the order isn't important. The point is that being I or E in terms of MBTI is only one of the factors on how extroverted someone is or is perceived to be.
 

Jeffster

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Hap, can you explain more what the difference is between cooperative and energy?
 

Haphazard

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Hap, can you explain more what the difference is between cooperative and energy?

Cooperative = drive to cooperate

Energy = drive to expend energy

Going to a PTA meeting is cooperative. Going skydiving is energy. Going to a crazy fratboy party is both, while reading a book is neither.
 

Jeffster

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Cooperative = drive to cooperate

Energy = drive to expend energy

Going to a PTA meeting is cooperative. Going skydiving is energy. Going to a crazy fratboy party is both, while reading a book is neither.

That's brilliant. You have such an awesome way of explaining things, you should be like....a professional explainer or something. :yes:

So, according to your graph, I'm a lot more likely to want to go skydiving than a PTA meeting or a fratboy party. And reading a book would probably be my second choice. Right? Or am I mixed up again?
 

Haphazard

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That's brilliant. You have such an awesome way of explaining things, you should be like....a professional explainer or something. :yes:

So, according to your graph, I'm a lot more likely to want to go skydiving than a PTA meeting or a fratboy party. And reading a book would probably be my second choice. Right? Or am I mixed up again?

A wild guess would be the order would be skydiving, frat party, book, PTA meeting. Not so sure about the last two.
 

Jeffster

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A wild guess would be the order would be skydiving, frat party, book, PTA meeting. Not so sure about the last two.

If it was a book on something I was really interested in I would definitely put it 2nd.

As for frat party vs PTA meeting, well the only thing that would appeal to me about either would be the women, so...

young hotties vs MILFs....that's a dilemma that has confounded man for centuries.
 

Eric B

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What SDM said. I can run on E-Ne-rgy forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....

and just when I think I'm running out, some secret stash seems to get activated.

as long as there's something to interact with, I can interact indefinitely. It doesn't have to be people though, but people are the biggest mine of inspiration I can think of.

I'm WAY more extraverted than my mom though, who is ESFJ. She's more of a people-person than I am but in the sense of pure extraversion I'm a hundred times 'worse' than her. She can be all people-person-y but then she always needs to go home to her own space where things are her own way etc, and when she does her tasks she prefers to do them alone. If someone comes up and starts to chat with her while she's doing the laundry she'll be happy to chat and pleased to see them, but she wants to bustle them off all the same cos she can't get on with things while people are around. Maybe that's related to my pure extraversion, in that as long as they're around she can't focus on the task at hand, but I think it's more just that she actually does like doing these tasks, and doing them alone. She's said before that it's when she "clears her head out". She does get tired too, after say a dinner party or whatever, whereas I never do. After a party I feel like I'm ready to conquer the world.
ESFJ=Sanguine Melancholy; ENTP=Sanguine Choleric (even type as 7w8 a lot, I see). One part Melancholy will be as you described (socially very outgoing, but still need their own space), while the other as a mixture of Sanguine and Choleric is very outgoing, particularly as kids, but then perhaps get more into their own heads as adults.
edit - though the theory in the OP seems consistent enough in itself (like BW's theories lol), it doesn't seem to really bear out reality as I've experienced it. Most EJ's I've known have liked being around people but generally don't tend to invite them back home very often - they go to work, go to school, college, church, bars - whatever - and get their people fix but seem to treat their home as a sort of private space. My guess is that it could be the J thing meaning that because they like their routinese and habits and things being 'a certain way', and because they know they can't realistically force these on the entire world or get the whole world to accommodate these preferences, that's why they like to keep their homes as a sort of space where they CAN indulge all these things, and prefer to keep people away from them as much as reasonable and polite, cos then they'd have to start 'flexing' at home, something that might be difficult or stressful. Perhaps.

Meanwhile EP's I think are the most extraverted, being the types I've seen exhibit the most hyperactive type behaviour, which I reckon results from the simple fact that we're so extremely plugged in and engaged and energized by the external world that for as long as we can keep any of our senses conscious, we're being stimulated and loving it. EP's are the people I know with the most sort of 'open house' type lives, where not only do they go out in search of stimulation but happily invite it home too, and spend very little time actually alone because they can never turn away stimulation. Maybe ExFP's more so with the human company, and ExTP's more so with just 'stuff' like say, bringing work home.

It's like the 16 types consist of two temperament matrices overlaid, and the temperament matrices consist of axes of "expressed" and "wanted" behavior. (FIRO terms). Expressed behavior is what we normally think of as 'extraversion", yet that is only what we "say we want", while wanted behavior is what we "really want". This would be basically covered by the "role-directive/informative" factor. The temperament matrices basically cover social skills, and action skills. For "action", expressive would be pragmatic vs. cooperative, and wanted would be another axis called Structure vs motive. J will indicate either directing or structure, while P is informing or motive. (T and F, likewise). Another term for "informing" and "motive" is "responsive", so those who respond to people will seem in some respects like extraverts (regardless of how tmuch they express), while those less responsive will be more into their own personal space, even if they express to people. Hence, the EJ behavior you mentioned. So yes; the EP's would be the most all around extroverted.
 

Randomnity

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Your list seems accurate at the extreme ends, but not in the middle, in my (limited :)) experience. The ENTP and ENFPs I know are definitely more extroverted than the ISxPs. My ISFP bf and I are both pretty introverted, by pretty much whatever definition you want to use. Definitely more than my good friend who's an ENTP, or ENxP acquaintances. We might like to go out and party or whatever in short doses, but it's always a relief to come home again.

So with that in mind, I'm not sure that S vs N has more of an impact than I vs E, though I agree that Ss would tend to be more extroverted than Ns of the same type. The theories about the other traits seem reasonable as well.
 

Mondo

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I would say that ISXP types are very big on doing things but not necessarily talking or doing things with other people.

The ENXP types are the reverse in that respect- they enjoy the company of others but don't always have to be doing things to be content but they hate being alone more than the ISXPs.

I enjoy mingling with people more than my ISXP friends but they more so enjoy the activities involved with the typical college parties than I do- so I think we're even in that respect.
 

Haphazard

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I would say that ISXP types are very big on doing things but not necessarily talking or doing things with other people.

The ENXP types are the reverse in that respect- they enjoy the company of others but don't always have to be doing things to be content but they hate being alone more than the ISXPs.

I enjoy mingling with people more than my ISXP friends but they more so enjoy the activities involved with the typical college parties than I do- so I think we're even in that respect.

What he said.
 

Ilah

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I have read about that brain theory before and it seems to make sense. Or at least it seems to apply to me. I think I often get a more intense reaction than the average person. I can get very worked up over a book or movie. My adrenalin level can really get up there. I even hyper ventilated during an action seen in a movie. Playing D&D can really get my emotions up and sometimes even playing minatures games. I get worked up sometimes when my little plastic soldiers die and have to keep telling myself "it is just a game."

Things like books, movies and games are good for an "ideal" level of stimulation, occasionally they are even too stimulating. But many people find these things boring, so I am guessing they are not getting any adrenaline out of it at all.

I would concider myself to be an HSP. I have a strong appreciation for everyday sensory experiences - the taste of food, plants and flowers outside my building, etc. I also like to experience things away from distraction, for example I like looking at art in quiet, uncrouded museums or alone at home in an art book. I don't really seek out strong sensory experiences.

I am not sure if extroverts are necessarily more active. There seem to be a lot of people who like to just "hang out" which is basically doing nothing, but in a group.

Ilah
 

Xander

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Presuming that we are talking about the socially accepted versions of extrovert and introvert (ie related to energy and people) the chart seems quite astute.

I've been thinking about that particular scale recently and have had my definitions questioned in light of my own type being questioned.

Introvert is usually thought of as more reclusive and less bothered with interaction. They are expected to be more passive than agressive and thought of as self contained, as much as a human can be. However if you think of introverts as living, by preference, in an "internal world" some of the confusion can be overcome. There are those introverts who will seek people out but usually these people are those who have something which will add to the internal world. Hence an introvert with an enthusiasm for comics may well seek out fellow comic lovers, be these others introverts or otherwise, to feed the internal world of comics which they carry around in their minds.

With this in mind I was thinking myself about ENFPs who seem to spend so much time in quite introverted thinking despite being quite the attention seeker in many a case. The thought which occurred to me was that perhaps the ENFP is pulling in information to affirm their current viewpoint as many seem to lack the requisite critical thinking (not that I'm asserting that ENFPs lack in intelligence or anything of the sort, just a weakness perhaps in this one small area) to esablish firmly their own definitions for what is right and what isn't... or what is the best path ahead. Ergo although they are extroverted in that they network and are generally quite open and friendly they spend quite a lot of time sucking in information and establishing an internal world as a guide to their actions in the external world.

As for the list as posted in the opening post, I can only nit pick. In general I find nothing wrong with the list. I am rather surprised to see ENTJs so far up the list but upon further analysis I can only conclude that their focus upon the external world, mostly to the detriment of the internal world, is about right. They establish what the external world should be and set about directing it's course. The same is true of the ISFJ, although mired quite often in the expectations and "supposed to's" of society they also emit such expectations with the thought that if they abide by it then so too should others.

I do however have the nagging feeling that there's a problem with the list. As with many of Wildcat's writings my mind is drawn more to the larger picture and is distracted from such analysis of detail in focus. My concern is that in studying whether a particular type is more extroverted or introverted we are ignoring the wider implications of their preferences. ESFJs may well be extroverted but the foundations of their self image may well be routed quite firmly in the INTP side of their personality, hence the more solid appearance when compared to say an ESTP or an ENTP. This logically suggests more effort devoted to the introverted world and therefore does it not suggest that the model of a simple list does not do the full picture justice?

As with all detailed studies I can only conclude that the list is correct within it's context and useful as a case study but perhaps misleading of the overall picture.

Mind you though it's something I'd not thought of. I was intending to write a new thread based on extroversion versus introversion and the disparity between what people see as E or I versus what it actually is in terms of cognitive wiring.

:nice:
 

INTJMom

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...
Because of this, I propose that Myers-Briggs 'introversion' and 'extroversion' is definitely not the same as traditional introversion and extroversion ...
I agree with you completely.
Additionally, the MBTT differences between E and I are difficult to describe.
 

sciski

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My concern is that in studying whether a particular type is more extroverted or introverted we are ignoring the wider implications of their preferences. ESFJs may well be extroverted but the foundations of their self image may well be routed quite firmly in the INTP side of their personality, hence the more solid appearance when compared to say an ESTP or an ENTP.

Could you expand on the bolded part? I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
 

Samvega

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This post really deserved more attention, it's well thought out and seems to carry much way in many regards.
 

Lady_X

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ENXPs at what point do being around people and having your senses stimulated drain you?

Same question to ISXXs.

if the company is good...i never feel drained. i can stay up till 6 or so the next morning chatting if i'm having fun.

if i'm not enjoying the people...i can't really pretend to longer than 30 min to an hour.
 

SurlyAdam

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When I think of Extroverted vs Introverted, it comes down to the need for outside stimulation. Extroverts need human interaction or they feel like something is missing and they'll take action to find stimulation. Introverts need time alone or they feel overwhelmed and overstimulated.

Being 100% Introverted I'm an extreme case, but I don't require any outside stimulation. I rarely seek people out and couldn't say what being lonely feels like. For a few years, until last fall, I lived a very social life and it was absolutely exhausting. At the end of the night, I couldn't wait to be alone to just breath and reflect. I came to realize how much I valued solitary pursuits and began to spend more and more time alone. I'm not anti-social, I just don't need people around in order to feel satisfied.
 
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